Lostpedia Blog

Saturday, April 18, 2009

Deconstructing: Fake Oceanic Flight 815

And we're back... for another epic deconstruction blog, and this time we'll hit a true answer with an almost 100% certainty. Today's post deals with the question: who faked that plane wreck at the bottom of the ocean? I remember last year when we first heard Captain Gault say Ben did it, I remember when Tom told Michael how Widmore did it. Most of all, I remember my utter confusion over who to believe (which recently prompted another post about whether there truly was a good/evil side when it came to the Widmore-Linus divide). But this week saw what I now consider to be a categorical answer to the question: Widmore faked the plane wreckage. Let us begin with the scene in which Miles "reads" Felix, the dead guy Naomi shows him:

MILES: His name's Felix. He was... on his way to deliver something to, uh...

[Whispering continues]

MILES: A guy named... Widmore.

NAOMI: Deliver what?

MILES: A bunch of papers, photos, pictures... of... [whispering continues] empty graves. A purchase order... for an old airplane.

Is this conclusive enough? Of course, some people (including myself for a while) would argue that it is still not 100%. How like LOST. It's true - Felix could have been taking documents to Widmore that actually implicated Ben. We've all now kind of realised that Felix was probably killed by Tom, who would later show Michael the same documents in order to recruit him as "Ben's man on the boat". Michael never questioned the documents he saw, and our first piece of evidence in this post is that the documents were written out to Widmore Industries (see screencap). Thus, unless Tom forged the documents he presumably took when he killed Felix - the evidence speaks for itself that Felix was delivering Widmore receipts for his order, NOT results of any kind of private investigation. Might seem obvious, but it's good that we can clarify it all once and for all.

Our next main bit of evidence comes from Find 815. Now I know what you might be thinking - "I didn't play that sucky excuse for a LOST ARG, it was non-canon". And you are quite right. Find 815 was not canon. Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse were involved in the concept, and from what I've gathered researching on the InterWeb they gave Hoodlum (the guys who made the ARG) the premise of the Season 4x02 episode opener - that a salvage ship called the Christiane I was going to find the wreckage of Flight 815. From there, Hoodlum devised the entire ARG story, including backstories for any characters they created including protagonist Sam Thomas. Now if you view Find 815 as completely true, Sam was contacted through mysterious emails, seemingly sent from someone at a company called the Maxwell Group. Following the trail of the emails, Sam was led to the Christiane I, a salvage vessel searching for the Black Rock. After being literally given a specific set of co-ordinates by the mysterious emailer, Sam ends up finding the not the Black Rock, however, but the wreck of Oceanic Flight 815. Along the way, he meets Oscar Talbot, the expedition supervisor who also works for the Maxwell Group. Furthermore, after snooping in Talbot's room, Sam discovers that the Maxwell Group is in fact a division of Widmore Industries!!!

This all seems to fit in with the "Widmore faked the wreck" argument. It makes sense that the Maxwell Group might have been tasked with getting some sap to find the wreck their parent company planted. Playing to Sam's emotion (he lost his partner on Flight 815) - they trick him into making the discovery and make it seem like it was a remarkable "twist of fate" that the wreck had been discovered. Of course, though, this is all useless as it is non-canon, right? Well, consider what Damon Lindelof said in an interview with Entertainment Weekly. After explaining how the ARG had been non-canon, he did admit:
I'll sign off on this idea: The Christiane 1, which in the show was responsible for finding Oceanic 815, was in fact looking for the Black Rock. We established that in the show — but the people who owned the ship may have been up to a little bit more than just looking for the Black Rock.
As a matter of fact, I don't think they did really establish that on the show conclusively - all they said was that the Christiane I had been quote " in search of the remains of sunken trading ships". But Lindelof's remark does furthermore fit in with the picture we're painting of how Widmore faked the plane wreck, and how he exploited the discovery. My first observation here was, OK, it sounds like this Christiane I is owned by Widmore (as per the non-canon ARG interpretation where Widmore had financed the ship's salvage mission) - but why would Widmore be looking for the Black Rock when he should already know it's on the Island? This can be easily answered though. As Lindelof said, "the people who owned the ship were up to more than just looking for the Black Rock". They were there to pretend like they had suddenly stumbled across the wreck of Oceanic Flight 815 while on an innocent salvage operation - when in fact they were hired by Widmore. It's likely that the majority of the ship's crew weren't complicit in the scheme as, judging by the reaction of the ROV operator in 4x02, they were genuinely surprised to discover the plane wreck. But it seems clear as day to this little blogger that Widmore not only staged the wreck, and also orchastrated another elaborate lie by slyly pushing the Christiane I (whether you believe my evidence or the Find 815 information) into finding his handy work. Indeed, what are the chances otherwise that a boat looking for the BLACK ROCK (thereby already making it dodgy without the Lindelof comment that they were up to more than that) should stumble upon FLIGHT 815?!

And there we have it - my conclusive proof and deconstruction that Widmore obviously faked the plane wreck and controlled its discovery. The writers likely intended the Naomi and Miles scene to categorically clear up this debate, and I hope I've helped along the way by picking off any remaining fans who still have their doubts. I also think my take on the Christiane I strengthens the writer's message, and gives a little bit of backstory that we were probably supposed to work out about Widmore orchastrating the wreck's discovery. As a fan, I'm much happier that it is now cleared up that Widmore did it - the notion that Ben was the one behind the lie never felt right - despite the fact that Ben and lying are seldom that far apart in a sentence. Moreover, I like that it has now also somewhat legitimized and given depth to the Find 815 alternate reality game. In hindsight the narrative cooked up by Hoodlum now actually seems to work really well within the mythology of the main show (though I never thought I'd compliment Hoodlum after the epic fail that was the recent Dharma Recruiting Project).

Were you always / are now 100% satisfied that Widmore faked the plane wreck? How did Widmore know TO fake the plane wreck (well he had met Locke in the 50s, so could have worked it all out...)? What was the whole point of Captain Gault's rouse in Season 4 with the black box? As ever, let us know your comments :)

29 comments:

idledandy said...

Nope. The scene just made me all the more convinced that Ben did it. If we were meant to think Widmore did it, they could have left it at "Meet Kevin Johnson," which came down pretty hard on the Widmore-did-it side.

This episode called that completely into question. Look at poor dead Felix. Which sounds more reasonable: that he's bringing Widmore proof of what Widmore already did, or that he's bringing Widmore proof of what someone else did? The latter makes more sense. If Widmore did fake the wreck, he'd more likely want the evidence destroyed than risk having it brought to him.

Tom killed Felix to keep Widmore from having proof Ben faked the wreckage. Then he showed Michael the real pictures and an altered PO to implicate Widmore.

flickmybic said...

i am still not convinced!

why would the man who put this on, want photos of empty graves brought to him? now that we have seen miles' flashback with naomi, the idea that felix was investigating the faked flight 815 wreck seems the only clear reason widmore would want that evidence.

consider any of the following questions...
was felix killed before he reached widmore with the evidence? i am assuming that widmore never received it. this could be why widmore wanted miles's to read felix.
why would widmore want or need this evidence brought to him in the first place? perhaps he found out that a company using his name was spending money for such an expenditure.
does the fact that this evidence was being brought to widmore prove widmore's involvement in the wreck? not in the least.

the fake flight 815 wreck was probably faked by whoever put ilana and bram on flight 316. i am beginning to think that chang escaped the island before the purge, but i do not want to believe he faked the wreck.

LolaG said...

When they showed the episode with all Ben's various passports, I thought maybe he was powerful enough and on the move enough to have faked the crash. But something on that scale takes serious money, and nothing about Ben screams serious money.

I'm starting to think that both Ben and Widmore will turn out to be tools to varying degrees - fighting bits of a battle on behalf of others who are stronger than either of them.

For now, I'm going with Widmore being behind the fake crash scene.

And I'm thinking that Bram and Illana don't work for either- but are helping out either Sun or Daniel and on a mission all their own involving Jughead (which I'm pretty sure is buried in the shadow of the statue).

Anonymous said...

I'm gonna have to agree with idledandy: THe point is being made in this episode that Chuck did not stage the crash.

And also as LolaG said, Ben might, but probably does not have the resources to pull it off.

My guess is that it is most likely the third party "shadow of the statue" gang, who are working for maybe Elloise or one of the survivors. Maybe Paik industries? Maybe The Hanso Foundation?

Anonymous said...

This really has nothing to do with the fake crash, but more so the third party "shadow of the statue" group that was referred to.


Anyone think that maybe Richard could be behind them? I know his role is to supposedly choose the leaders(?) but what if maybe him and Jacob are done searching out chosen ones and have decided to take matters into their own hands.

Anonymous said...

I started watching Lost in January of this year. I finished four seasons in three weeks. I just wanna say that I feel really sorry for the people that have been watching this show on a week to week basis since 04. Holy shit. Talk about some dedication. You guys rule. And for those of you that gave up after season three episode four. . I hope you're enjoying Heroes. Losers

Nickb123 said...

The shipping order was in Widmore's name though... if Tom took it from Felix - do we really think he then took time to forge it all?

Anonymous said...

felix was widmores victim shown in a video to locke by ben. felix was probably setting up widmore to make it look like he set up the crash when it was really ben. felix got caught and was about to get shot by widmore. that would make the most sense cause it would tie everything together

flickmybic said...

thanks anon! i had totally forgot about the tape of widmore which ben revealed to locke in "the other woman"(s04e06).

however, i still have to question the motivation...

why would felix "bring" anything to widmore if he works for somebody else?

perhaps felix was killed by this other dude who is getting beat up by widmore? he may have already passed the evidence off to tom too which was why he was being beaten instead of just being killed.

Anonymous said...

i totally agree about jughead being in the shadow of the statue. imagine the power someone would have with a nuclear bomb? more importantly does no one think it strange that a company the size and power of the dharma initiative would not try and get back to an island which they know holds so much power and importance? there had to be a set up off island for dharma which the purge couldnt touch. i think the 'shadow of the statue' are new dharma who have been trying all this time to get back to the island to start a 'war' with the hostiles for breaking the truce with the purge.

also another question i hope someone can answer. how did dharma start building all over the place on the island? surely in the initial stages of dharma ariving it would have been easy for the native hostiles to eliminate them like with the US army?

Arcticroses said...

First off, Jug Head is NOT a nuclear bomb, it is a HYDROGEN bomb. Big difference.
Second, idledandy is right. If Widmore had staged the fake crash in the Sunda Trench, he would not need proof of empty graves and a PO for a plane. Like many watchers, I suspected Widmore at first, but when Tom showed the supposed proof to Micheal, I was convinved that it was Ben and his network of Others who had staged the wreck. After watching Some Like It Hoth, I am even more convinced.

Anonymous said...

Ben deffinitely manipulated the whole thing, having syid arrested, killling ben to get to jack, the ring with sun, and he deffinitely would have the money to pull it off. I mean they can time travel and ben always says he doesnt know anything when he always does.

The money he could deffinitely get because Miles even tells him he knows he can get him the 3.2 million in short time. Which is also think its cool we find out why he choose that number to not turn ben in.

Tori said...

I think it could still be argued both ways, and some of these comments are really persuasive, but like you, I think the writers meant this to show definitively that Widmore faked the plane crash.

I bet that sometime next season, we get a Widmore flashback and see him finding out about the plane crash, somehow putting two and two together, and ordering a cover-up. That would be an awesome episode.

Steveo said...

You're all missing another vital clue in all this; Matthew Abaddon's "there were no survivors of Oceanic 815" 'instruction' to Naomi. This is clearly open open to interpretation, but in my opinion it adds weight to the 'Widmore done it' side of the debate.

Anonymous said...

I think this has been answered now by the recap show. I have yet to see it,but the summary states it verifies Widmore staged the fakery.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I watched the recap last night and it clearly stated that the wreckage was planted by Widmore. Case closed!

Anonymous said...

They did state that on the recap show, but I'm not certain that that's canon. It still doesn't make sense to me that Felix would be delivering this "proof" to Widmore if Widmore had known about it.

Another thing that caught my interest here: Naomi told Charlie et. al. when they found her that the wreckage of flight 815 had been found with no survivors. After seeing this episode, this proves that she already knew that it was staged when she told them this.

Edward said...

The clips show said Widmore did it, so he did it. It's possible Widmore knew 815 might end up on the island and actually began preparing the fake wreckage beforehand.
Here's the scenario: Widmore knew Locke would end up on the Island (from the 1953 meeting) so he has been tracking Locke throughout his life. He decided that if he himself could get Locke on the Island it would help him get a lock on the Island (pun intended). He conferred with Ms. Hawking and determined that Oceanic 815 would pass over the Island in 2004. He had Abaddon befriend Locke and convince him to travel to Australia and he paid off the walk-about tour company to reject Locke so that Locke's only option was to book a return flight on 815. (Sounds like this plan could easily have gone wrong, but Widmore was convinced it would work: he knew Locke *would* get to the Island so he just had to manipulate the *how*.)
When 815 disappeared Widmore knew the plan had worked. Locke was on Island and would soon trigger disruptions that would make the Island reveal itself. Widmore arranged for the fake wreckage to be discovered to throw off any rival Island seekers who might also have been tracking 815. And he watched and waited for the EM blip that would pinpoint the Island.

Anonymous said...

So, does this mean that Ben's actions (turning the FDW) to keep Widmore from finding the Island actually allowed him to find it in the first place?

amandakay1 said...

Felix could have just been reporting to his boss (Widmore), or he could have been a spy, or a defector.... there's just nothing conclusive here, sorry.

I'm personally waiting for DHARMA to resurface and implicate themselves in the fake wreckage. They would need to keep the island secluded while they form or implement a plan to retake it.

Edward said...

>> So, does this mean that Ben's actions (turning the FDW) to keep Widmore from finding the Island actually allowed him to find it in the first place?

I think it's likely - and not the only case of circular causality on the show. Without Ben's action, Widmore would not have met Locke in 1953 and would not have known that Locke had a link to the Island.

If Widmore planted the fake wreckage it could only be because he knew 815's disappearance was connected with the Island. How would he have known that? Three guesses: (1) he has a spy on the Island who saw the crash, (2) he knew the flight had entered Island space (by getting the coordinates from Ms. Hawking or by his own Lamppost-like device), or (3) he knew someone connected with the Island was on the plane.

Probably not (1); definitely (3); maybe also (2).

The Others knew Locke from 1953 and knew his identity from birth onwards. It only makes sense that Widmore, after his exile, would continue to track Locke as a link to the Island and a possible way to get back himself. If we assume that Abaddon was acting as Widmore's agent when he suggested the walkabout to Locke, we can conclude that Widmore was engineering Locke's fated trip to the Island. Maybe he guessed from Locke's age that it was time to happen; maybe he knew that 815 would pass over Island space. Either way, when Locke's flight disappeared Widmore knew where it had gone. The faked wreckage was to throw off any other parties tracking Locke or the flight.

Pud said...

Edward, you make some good points but just to clear up one little thing Locke met Widmore in 1954, not 1953.

The Others have known since that 1954 meeting that Locke was destined to be their leader but they just didn't know when or how it would come to be. That is why Richard Alpert kept track of him as a child and it is also how Widmore, since his exile after the purge, has been using as a means to find the island. One thing that puzzles me with Widmore is he doesn't seem to make any attempts himself to get back to the island, he pays others to help him find it but doesn't go back himself. He could have gone back on 815 and also the freighter. Makes me think that he knows he can't personally go back to the island because it was Jacob who exiled him, the Others follow Jacob's every command (killing the US soldiers, the purge etc.). If Jacob knows all then he would know that Widmore's actions would lead Locke to the island, so therefore he ordered Widmore be exiled instead of killed. And if Jacob said that Widmore could never return then Ben will do everything in his power to uphold that order. From the Ben flashback in 'Dead is dead' it appears that Widmore wasn't a true believer in Jacob and was more of a tyrant when he was the leader of the Others. Kind of gives some cred to Ben saying that Widmore only wants to exploit the island for his own benefit.

flickmybic said...

if widmore faked the 815 wreck AND wanted the evidence delivered to him, he is dumb. i do not like dumb bad guys...

Bigmouth said...

Someone actually posted a link to this excellent post in the comments to my recap of Some Like It Hoth. At the time, I disagreed with you, but the recent clip show has apparently confirmed your speculation. Kudos!

Anonymous said...

Edward is right. The narrator of last night's clip show flat out stated that Widmore did it.

Anonymous said...

Just a quick question relating to the staged wreckage...in the news reports that covered the finding of the wreckage, it said that all passengers on board were accounted for. Now I know that we know it was a hoax, but the rest of the world must have wondered whose bodies were in the eight survivors' seats? (Oceanic 6 minus Aaron, plus Boone, Charlie and Libby) Maybe I missed where that was explained. Anyone wanna help me out?

Anonymous said...

I can not believe the writers of this show would put this information out in a recap episode. This is too important for just a narrative to clear up.

Silly. I do not believe for one minute if Widmore orchestrated it, he'd need this information delivered to him.

I still believe this was information that Felix dug up about Ben and Tom and was delivering this proof to Widmore.

Edward said...

If the recap statement about Widmore and the wreckage was false, the producers will surely address it in an interview or podcast. They would not let such a serious error be broadcast without comment. They corrected the Charlotte birth-year blunder and that was not this blatant (i.e. it could have been explained within the story as Ben having bad intel or just misspeaking). If we don't get a retraction by the producers on this I'd say it's been canonized.

Geoffrey said...

Nick123 Vindicated! The popular opinion that Ben had to do it because Widmore would not need someone to bring this information to him can be explained away without too much trouble. Does anyone think that Widmore would trust this data to anyone other than himself? He needed all of the evidence in his own possession in order to be sure it stayed buried. But Ben grabbed it and likely killed Felix in the process.