5x03 Jughead Review
This episode seems like a difficult one to discuss... major events happened, but it felt like there were only a few things to comment on specifically. Also zero easter eggs really (please correct me if there were - maybe on that landmine before it blew up?)
Let's start with Locke - who is starting to wear a little thin with his whole "I was sent here to lead you" biz. What does he expect people to say to that? I guess it is the 1950's though, Milgram and all that... or was that the 70's... time is weird! (our new club motto). But I thought it was really interesting how he gives Richard the compass - which now explains what Richard was doing when he visited a young Locke last season - the objects didn't have some spiritual meaning, young Locke was supposed to pick the compass but didn't. What is weird though is the chronology of it - Richard in the... whenever... gives Locke a compass. Locke goes back in time to the 50's and gives it to Richard who has never seen it before you'd think by the look on his face. Two years later, Richard offers it to Locke who rejects it. Richard then keeps the compass and gives it to Locke at the Beechcraft. Do you get what I'm trying to say here? The compass technically came from nowhere... Weird...
Moving on to the Others themselves. This was perhaps the highlight of the episode - seeing how the Others were in the 50's, and how Richard just lives forever it seems. God knows what the deal is with him, but it seems like he is actually PART of the Island almost. I liked Ellie though - she bore a resemblance to Charlotte though... and she's now my frontrunner for the "who are Charlotte's parents if she was born on the Island" speculating. The Latin as well as a lot of fun - typically Juliet knows all these things and never mentions them. She also knows that Richard lives forever, and probably knows why, and yet won't tell anyone until they ask (which seems like never).
And Mr Charles Widmore - it's quite ironic that he is actually just a lacky - tends to reflect most big cheeses in life... they were always someone else's property once upon a time and have pent up issues. It was bizarre though that he was just an Other. We always got the impression that Widmore's ties in the Island go deeper - though then again, perhaps we'll soon see that they do.
Ending with Charlotte - is the fact that she may have been born on the Island the reason for her sickness following time travel? It seems likely. My theory is that the Island is on a separate space/time, so it allows the paradox of e.g. Locke being there before his birth. However, as Charlotte is FROM the Island space, she may be experiencing these side-effects as she effectively walks around the same age as her parents (thus making a paradox). It's a wacky theory, as usual, but it seems highly likely that her birth is the special factor. Looking forward to hearing other theories.
Let's end by sparing a thought for the beach camp. Only 10 or so others made it out? They're dropping like bombs!
40 comments:
I think Richard already had the compass, remember he didn't quite believe Locke until He saw that. I'm guessing there are now two compasses
I know, and what is up with Rose and Bernard? I think we're supposed to assume they're still alive somehow.
Smarter people than me have noted that "Ellie" could end up being Eloise Hawking, meaning Faraday's mother was shoving a gun in her son's face. Or that she could be the mother of the girl Faraday experimented on. Or Charlotte's mother. And Widmore could be her father... I hope we get answers about Charlotte, at least, next week.
Faraday's mother is Ms. Hawking. Faraday's rat was named Ellie, so the young lady with the gun named Ellie is most likely Faraday's mother as well.
If Mrs Hawking is Faraday's Mother AND Ellie from 1954, and the suggestion that she maybe Charlotte's Mother (and Widmore her Dad) is a good one - that makes Daniel and Charlotte siblings. Hmmm.
Also a question for the keener-Losties, something that's been puzzling me for a while: babies born on the island (Charlotte, possibly Miles? Candle's baby etc) HOW if as we learned from previous series and from Juliet's medical work, Mothers die in labor before babies are born therefore no babies born on the island? Or was it just The Others at Ben's time who had this problem?
Is anyone else interested to know who is Penny's mother?What if Widmore and Ellie(Mrs. Hawking) were together and had children (Penny,Daniel and possibly Charlotte)?
It's possible Widmore got busy making all these babies, but (time travel notwithstanding) Charlotte is supposed to only be 25 when she arrived on the island. Penny and Daniel are certainly much older, but since Ellie was a young woman in 1954 on the island it would seem too much of an age gap for her to be Charlotte's Mum too?
I agree that Ellie is Ms. Hawking from the end of the ring episode and at the end of The Lie, talking to Ben. It's funny when you think about it because it was her son that probably inspired her to work on t he time travel, while at the same time it was his upbringing that inspired him to work on time travel!
I am also starting to go with the idea miles may be Lara and Chang's baby. No way could it be Charolette, as the baby was clearly asian.
Charolette and Daniel as siblings is a possibility (but I can't say I subscribe to because of her age), considering the writers love for Star Wars.
Is Abigail Spencer dressed like a flight attendant? Possibly Ajira??
I looked (and re-looked at Abigail Spencer's uniform) thinking it might have been an "easter egg" but it was definitely a gas station uniform- something Quik...
Hi Lulu, It is only women who become pregnant on the island who end up dying. Claire got pregnant off of the island, and we'll have to assume that Charlotte's and Miles's moms also got pregnant off the island and moved to the island during their pregnancies and then delivered the babies.
I'm a little ticked. I got on the chat sight to ask a question about lostpedia. I DIDN'T KNOW i was asking a question about a spoiler BECAUSE I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS A SPOILER THAT i SAW. Videos on the site that are spoilers should be clearly stamped as spoilers to prevent people like me who don't know any better from getting booted.
the big question, in my opinion, is the fallout between richard and charles widmore. they've already got it set up, but i'm interested to see how it happens.
on a separate note, i don't think that widmore had anything to do with funding dharma. he funded farraday's work on the mainland, but from episode one's implication that he had to kind of sneak into the island to spy on stuff, i would say that widmore had nothing to do with dharma. so how then did widmore give ben everything he had? ben gained power through richard utilizing him to kill off dharma.
on a final separate note, i think sun kills ben. the ones who got off the island will be sent back it seems and ben will no longer have a purpose in the show. sun has killed before mind you, and her character implies that she is very goal-oriented.
This episode has really made me think alot about the childhood of all the Oceanic 6. I think they were all only children (can someone confirm that) and we know at least John and possibly Sawyer were raised in foster homes (Sawyer, after his parents died). Is it possible that Sun, Kate, Hurley, Jack and Sayid were also all adopted? Could they all have been born to Others on the island and raised off the island by someone else? I could go on but would love to hear of someone else is starting to puzzle this together?
This (like most theories it seems) is a little far fetched, but exposure to radiation leads to spontaneous abortion or still-birth...could this be from the bomb (AND WHERE IS THAT THING?) that is buried on the island? While the mothers die also, it seems like the bomb, the radiation burns on the hands of one of the Others, and the baby problems could be related.
I think that Ellie is M(r)s. Hawking. She and Widmore are about the same age, so they could have been on the island at the same time in 1954. I say this in light of the theory circulating that Hawking is Daniel Faraday's Mother. He said that Ellie reminded him of someone. She kinda looked like Theresa Spencer, BUT this is Lost, and that would be too obvious.
I agree with the Ellie = Eloise = Daniel's mother, and that Widmore could very well be the father. Charlotte, we don't know about yet. I wouldn't rule out Miles as Chang's son.
The thing that bugged me was the introduction of Latin. Why now? If all Others know Latin, wouldn't they have used it in critical times in, say, Season Three, when the Others were talking in front of some of the Survivors. I'm sure Latin will be used more in the future, or else why introduce it now? Still, it doesn't add up.
Melodie - on the Chatroom it clearly posts when you log in that spoilers are not allowed. It also states that promo trailers for the episodes should also be seen as spoilers in the chatroom. Unfortunately, there is zero tolerance at the moment due to a number of people coming into the room and spoiling events for fans. Apologies if you were offended, but it's hard to stay spoiler free.
For the record, young Locke did in fact pick the compass as one of the objects that "belongs to you already."
If Ms. Hawking is Faraday's and Charlotte's mother, obviously they'd be siblings. This would explain why Faraday said he loved Charlotte and wouldn't let anything happen to her. Obviously, they wanted you to think he was in love with her, but he could love her as family.
Chuck, the theory that Charlotte and Daniel are siblings makes so much more sense in light of his "I love you" (like family) comment.
It seems a little premature that he'd be declaring romantic love for her, seeing as they haven't known each other that long (didn't they all meet as scientists on the freighter)?
For what's it's worth I loved the first person shooter camera angle when Ellie had the gun on Faraday. It looked like somebody was playing Doom for second.
Widmore could hate Ben if he was "or thought he was" the next chosen leader. Then Ben comes along from Dharma and takes it away
I hope the island has some sort of connection with Atlantis.
I don't know if this is an easter egg but I think Hugo's father makes an appearance as one of The Others in the scene where Richard and Faraday talk out side of the tents.
The guy in a red shirt and khakis (who looks like Hugo's father) walks by (and he is followed by the camera although it looks like the camera is revolving around Richard and Faraday) as Richard unties Faraday's hands and says "What ever your superiors told you...".
The guy looks like the younger version of Hugo's father. And Hugo told about the island to his mother but not to his father, yet. I might be wrong about this but than again this is Lost.
Back when Alpert visited young Locke. I never notice it before but every item Richard has is connected with the island and could have been Locke's. Did anyone notice the BOOK OF RULES? perhaps these are the rules that Ben, Dr. Candle and others keep referring to.
Locke chooses the compass when Alpert tests him as a little kid.
When Daniel Farraday speaks to Desmond in the past, Desmond wakes up and remembers... Penny tells him 'it's been three years'...
Why does Desmond remember only now? It would mean that Daniel and the others losties have spent three years on the island, even if they don't have that feeling because of time travel...
Whoever wrote this blog post doesn't seem to know what a paradox means. Paradox in time travel is where you go back and time, killing your parents before you're born, thus making it impossible for you to be born, thus making it impossible to kill them. That's a paradox. Locke being on the Island before he's born isn't a paradox because his being there doesn't change anything.
Also the compass isn't necessarily a paradox, either. Some pretty cursory thinking is all that's needed to explain it. There are actually two explanations. Remember, Richard said "Where did you get that," suggesting he had seen it before, probably owned it. If Locke gave it to him, then there were two compasses until Richard gave Locke the second in the 1990s (last episode), so instead of a self-consuming loop (which is what a paradox is), it's more like a bow or knot figure. The second, and simpler, explanation, is that, as Juliet said a couple episodes before, whatever they had when the last flash occurred, they take with them, so Locke gave Richard the compass but it disappeared when Locke did.
I totally agree with the theory that Ellie=Eloise=Faraday's mother. Reason why she seems familiar to him.
I believe both Miles and Charlotte were born on the island. I believe that Charlotte is Faraday's daughter not sister, I have re-watched episodes, and his affection feels paternal to me. Theresa is the woman he loves, romantically. The rest I am trying to figure out.
You need to edit this post: Locke did NOT reject the compass. He chose the compass, the bottle of sand(?) and the knife.
For the record when Alpert came to Locke when he was a boy, Locke did NOT pick the compass. he picked the knife. thats why Alpert left.
I'm also not sure i agree that Charlotte and Danielle are related because he did say "i'm IN love" that just that he loves her. i feel like he wouldn't say in love if they were related.
Also, love the Ellie=Eloise Hawking= daniel's mother theory. i think it's right on the money
Nim, Abaddon and Kate Halleron - while Locke does pick up the compass and the sand, he ultimately chooses the knife as the item belonging to him. Thus, he does "reject it" as I say in the blog post.
Michael - apologies for not being clued in to the "paradox" meaning - I'm sure you got what I was trying to convey though in my theory
Assuming time travel is true, how about this as an explanation for the compass?
If Richard did not already own the compass when Locke gave it to him (compass A), he may have come into possession of it after the time he visited Locke as a child (compass B). He would then have two identical compasses (actually the same one), and when he gave the compass to Locke (compass B), it went back through the loop to return to him. At the time after Locke disappeared with compass B, Richard would still have compass A.
Jughead. Do any remember the 2nd season episode where Sayed and someone is exploring deep inside the Hatch and encounter a section that is a heavy buildup of concrete. The characters wonder aloud what could be there to warrant such a structure. I think its Jughead and the others followed Daniel's instruction of burying the bomb deep and in concrete. Perhaps the Hatch was built there to attempt to use that energy source and that is why every 108 minutes the thing had to be vented.
Jughead. Do any remember the 2nd season episode where Sayed and someone is exploring deep inside the Hatch and encounter a section that is a heavy buildup of concrete. The characters wonder aloud what could be there to warrant such a structure. I think its Jughead and the others followed Daniel's instruction of burying the bomb deep and in concrete. Perhaps the Hatch was built there to attempt to use that energy source and that is why every 108 minutes the thing had to be vented.
I'm starting to think the ONLY person ever born on the Island will turn out to be Aaron.
I think Charlotte was born off Island, and went there quite young.
Remember the episode where Sayed and someone was crawling around in the lower reaches of the Hatch? Season 2 I believe. They found a wall of concrete and commented on how thick it was and wondered what it was for. I think this is the final resting place of Jughead as the Others must have followed Daniel's advice.
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