What do you think of spoilers?
New Spoilers Restart Controversy
Note: No spoilers in this article. No spoilers in comments please (Comments thread will be moderated).
In the wake of a major scene-by-scene spoiler of the Season 4 finale by the Lost fansite DarkUFO, I must say I'm disappointed (again) but not surprised. Apparently he has received very specific spoilers for the season finale, and has posted the synopsis of the first hour of three, apparently a very detailed scene-by-scene reveal. A new controversy is brewing, and we want to hear your opinions.
Andy, the proprietor of DarkUFO, says he received the information from a source claiming to be "Lostfan108". If you don't remember, Lostfan108 was the person who gave Dark the spoiler for the finale of Season 3, perhaps one of the biggest mindfucks in television history. I'm glad I wasn't spoiled for that one. Dark of course released the information and started a huge controversy, causing Darlton to sulk into radio silence. If this is indeed the same Lostfan108, the content is real.
This time, DarkUFO has taken some care, including posting warnings, guidelines on behaviors such as disseminating spoilers responsibly, and posting the spoiler as a flash slideshow that can't be easily copy-pasted in its current form. Of course we all know a text summary will be posted soon, somewhere, by somebody. If there is a huge twist at the end of this season, it too will be accidentally spoiled for many fans as the site promises to release spoilers for the final two parts of the finale. Is it worth it, Andy?
For the rest of you, be careful on "teh Internetz" for the next few weeks. It's a dangerous world out there.
180 comments:
I hate spoilers, but I think some people get frustrated that the writers give them one answer then follow it up with 5 more mysteries. I know that is what the show is all about, but for some it gets frustrating. If they want to read the spoilers, let them, as long as they don't ruin it for me.
I don't understand why they can't just wait. The episode airs today! Is it that important to spoil something so close to its air date? Don't people understand that we will get more hints and spoilers from the producers if we just wait for them to give them to us instead of some lame leaked info?
It seems to me that people who feel the need to post spoilers are doing it for some weird ego-trip, as though they're trying to steal some of the spotlight.
People who leak massive spoilers are the same people who murdered Santa Clause!
It's only a bloody TV show! Who cares if the island is really a hallucination in Hurley's head? Ten years from now, no one will remember Lost. In the grand scheme of things, this is nothing. Darlton will get mad, but they're still contractually obligated to produce the show. As far as I'm concerned, spoil me rotten!
Hey you really can't fault the guy for posting the spoilers. If somebody wants to "be spoiled" and know what is going to happen, that is their own dumb fault. I personally enjoy the "WTF!!" moments that Lost provides us with, and I try to steer clear of all sort of stuff...
This is so pathetic I am absolutely speechless.
Well, almost:
Let's ask ourselves why Lost is so much fun: For me it is the unknow and speculation about what is still in store. Sometimes you can deduce what's in store, other times you can't and the plot twists make your jaw drop and head spin.
It's that speculation that also drives me to sites like Lostpedia where I can discuss theories, as well as delve ino facts we already know. Why? Because it's fun!
I would also assume that the hardcore fans who run sites like DarkUfo and Lostpedia also have this sense of fun and love for the show.
So why would someone who spends time and money on running a website (I'll just assume they are not making money on spoiling episodes. That would be so low they'd deserve a public beating. But not too much, since I oppose needless violence.) undercut what makes this show so great?
Seriously, the only reason I can see someone would do such a thing is because they are an attention whore.
I guess I'll just have to stay away from the internets (impossible) because some moron will always yell "Vader is Luke's Father!" just to be the center of attention.
Pathetic.
I enjoy little teasing spoilers, cos they build the anticipation.
But I kinda ruined Season 3 for myself by accidentally reading about Charlie here when I was only halfway thru the DVD set!
Being in the UK, I also tend to read the synopsis on Friday before seeing each week's episode - but last week I didn't get the chance, so finding out who was looking over Baby John was a massive Woah! moment, and I learned my lesson!
So thanks for the warning - I'll tread carefully on the web for a couple of weeks!
The type of person that reads spoilers is the same type of person who skips to the end of a book to read the last chapter to find out what happens. Are you so impatient? It's the JOURNEY that makes the story folks. Not the instant, empty gratification of skipping ahead.
I allowed myself to be spoiled on a book online once. It completely ruined the experience for me.
To the people who need to read spoilers; Just be patient and enjoy the journey. The show will be over before you know it.
To the people who post spoilers; Get a life. Is it so gratifying to submarine the storytellers anonymously. What do you really gain? Nothing.
Besides it ruining the point of the show, it also violates the rights of everyone who puts effort into creating it. They make it so you will watch their show for the answers, rather than getting all the information from some third party source. In my opinion, posting spoilers is worse than pirating because not only is their work being stolen, but the people who see these spoilers aren't even showing the respect of admiring the work, but rather just ripping through it for a cheap answer.
Think back to the spoilers from the Season 3 finale. "...he's constantly on the phone desperately trying to contact somebody. And the last scene shows us who...he goes to meet the mystery person, and it's the last person on earth we would think...it's KATE!
And it's now that we realize that for the first time in Lost history, we haven't been watching a flashback. We've been watching a FLASH-FORWARD!"
Well, OK. Sure it tells us what happens, but it's not exactly Shakespeare is it? The writers go to great lengths to created crafted, engaging and surprising endings. These spoilers tell us the core facts that we all want to know, but without the story-telling they're actually very weak. Then, when we watch the episode, the twist is gone and we no longer get to go on the amazing journey that has been skilfully created for us.
Did you ever sneak downstairs in the middle of the night and open your Christmas presents in secret because the excitement was too much? It's the same sort of thing. You get to see the cool new toys and maybe play with them, but it isn't the same. If only you'd waited until the next morning. Then you'd get to live the full experience and open them on Christmas Day with your family, and the music, and the food, etc, etc. Sure, you could try and re-wrap the presents and pretend that it was all happening for the first time - but it just wouldn't feel the same.
It's a hollow victory.
The trouble is that Lost is a victim of its own success. It presents us with all these questions and engages us so that we develop an insatiable appetite for answers. We analyse every possible name reference, scrutinise screenshots, reverse audio samples, and so in on the search for answers. It's understandable that these extra nuggets of truth could prove too tempting for some. Not only do they provide answers, but they provide answers before the rest of the community gets them - and that extra knowledge can give a sense of power and exclusivity.
But those who do choose to read the spoilers may find it to be something of a poisoned chalice when they are denied the emotional rollercoster of the real deal. But that's their prerogative.
Those who choose to blurt it out and spoil it for the rest of us however, are selfish idiots and I wish them leprosy and an early death.
:-)
I remember accidently starting to read the spoiler from S3 finale last year...it was posted in a message board under fan fiction...and I began reading into it and it was just too late. For the next two weeks, after i watched the finale and already knew word for word what was happening, I remember being SO MAD.
Spoilers ruin all the fun. C'mon people, just enjoy being surprised.
I hate spoilers!! The whole point of Lost is how you figure out the clues and how you interpret what might happen next, then discussing it with fellow lost fans. I have friends who are solely my "Lost Friends" and we discuss what happened on Lost and what might happen next, even though we have almost nothing else in common besides Lost. That is the genius behind this show.
Plus, the producers reveal necessary information in its proper time. We knew of Penelope Widmore long before the freighter arrived. But that's the fun of Lost. The "Oh my god, that's from Season 2" moment. That's why I watch Lost. It's not about finding out the information first. It's about the puzzle that the producers have created. So, basically, spoilers suck.
At least the existence of spoilers allow those that abstain from reading to consistently voice their superiority to those that indulge.
Wha...WHAT? Vader is Luke's FATHER?! Well THANKS for spoiling me on that too!
In all seriousness, there is a line the must me drawn. I like some spoilers, but only what you can find on Spoilerfix and E!Online's Watch with Kristin. Anything, I try to stay clear of. I used to read some of the big synopsises for the episodes when they came out...like back at the start of S2. But now? I couldn't do that to myself. The completely mindfrakkery of this season has gotten me addicted to, well...mindfrakkery. Which means I don't want it spoiled.
But if others do? Who are we to whine and moan and complain. Yes, I know...those spoiler can, and will, eventually be spread. Which means unfortunately others will be accidentally spoiled because some bastard can't keep his, for lack of a better phrase, hands to himself. Or rather, hands off his keyboard.
But I think "staying of the internets" in its entirety is a tad in the extreme. I mean, as long as you steer clear of the less-reputable sites, you'll be fine. It's night like someone is going to imbed the spoilers in Google's new header.
If you don't want to be spoiled, just stay smart.
I think real "Lost" fans shouldn't want to read play-by-plays before the episode airs, nor do they want to know what the big twist/reveal is. Filming and location news is a little different, but flat out ruining the actual story-telling process is wrong and has no place in the fan universe of "Lost."
Who cares if they leak spoilers? If you don't like them then just don't read them... how hard is that!? Dark gives plnety of warning. I love spoilers, and why shouldn't I, I live in the UK and don't have Sky so can't watch Lost easily, not even on the ABC website (because it won't play in the UK).
For those who think that reading spoilers doesn't take away from the show, I have to say that's bullshit. Sorry. You cannot tell me that you experience an episode the same way after you have read a written, detailed synopsis of the show beforehand.
I once had someone argue the point that reading spoilers is no different than re-watching an episode. I have to disagree because nothing can replace that feeling of an unexpected twist experienced for the first time. Could you honestly say that Walkabout would have had the same impact if you already new the twist at the end? When you re watch an episode you are enjoying it on a different level. The creator's did not intend for the audience to experience the show this way, if they did, then they would have written a novel. That's why Damon and Carlton got so angry at the end of last season.
I can tell you that Lostfan108 is not a real Lost fan. I would loved to know why they can't keep a lid on spoilers. I have never seen a show that couldn't control the show content from being leaked as badly as Lost.
Some of you people need to calm down. Don't shoot the messenger (Andy). If you don't like spoilers, fine, stay away, but there are people who enjoy reading them (not myself).
Let those who want to be spoiled be spoiled, don't take this high-and-mighty attitude about it.
If you don't like spoilers, don't read them. It's not Dark's fault if people get spoiled, as he gives visitors the option to turn away.
It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Andy from DarkUFO posts a spoiler like this. I honestly have trouble understanding if he is a fan, or is just trying to make fast bucks by hosting Google Ads on free Blogspot hosting services.
Spoilers are posted by those who never watch the show. No fan of the show would ever post a spoiler or read one, for that matter.
I agree with jack...in the past I used to read every spoilers that I find just to try to know something new. And I'm gone to ruin sense of the show. So I stopped it!
But more answers, big answers I mean probably help to protect secrets of the show. You know..something like "give and take".
Although DarkUFO proved many times to be a useful resource site for LOST fans, I can't help but strongly disagree with its spoiler policy.
Spoilers should all be, and with really no exception, banned from fansites. I never read them, wand I doubt many of us do. so why bother ? We all have plenty of time to theorize and spoil in huge ways AFTER the broadcast...
Wow. Where to start....
Firstly to question me as a fan of the show is quite franky insulting. I spend 15 hrs a day working on the site and it's a real labour of love.
The ads on the site pay for my hosting and other bills to accounts like Flickr pro, ISP costs etc Any other money I make I use for prizes for competitions etc for fans and readers of my site.
Oh, and if I didn't post the spoilers Lostfan said that he would post them on another site, without warning and would have spoiled it for more people. I took it upon myself to release them in the most controlled manner possible unlike last year when Lostfan108 posted them openly on the AICN message boards without any warning.
Which method of release would you have preferred? At least I'm trying my best for Lost Fans who don't want to be spoiled.
One last thing, over 20,000 fans voted in favour of the spoilers being released last year. A lot of people love spoilers, a lot of people hate spoilers, but don't ever tell me or anyone else what we should or should not like or do.
I prefer to give people the choice in what they read rather than dictating how people should act and what they should read. It's called democracy.
Frankly I expected better from a poster at Lostpedia, rather than contact me and ask for my side of the story, to just go ahead and post this story is a little sad, imho. But I guess it makes for a better story if you only have one side of it.
It's a shame. This show is entirely built on suspense and anticipation. If you all are like me, you say each week--"4 days till LOST". "LOST, tommorrow!"
I hate people who post spoilers. They are the same losers that live their life on trying to make people like them.
The remind me of that little dog that jumped back and forth over Spike. "Ok, Spike, whatever you say Spike, sure Spike".
To DarkUFO - I don't think it was a personal attack by any means. Santa was simply commenting on Lost fansites that subscribe to posting spoilers and whether this is for the good of the fanbase. He does mention that you have marked the spoilers clearly, but I think his point is that we all know eventually someone will copy and paste the spoilers you have hidden from plain view, and post them on somewhere like Lostpedia or TTS and spoil a vast number of people. His question is whether such information is worth a scoop.
To what you say about being threatened into releasing it - I still would not give in to that. Point is, Santa was analysing Lost fansite policy towards spoilers in general, which fans may or may not agree with - but I don't think he ever tried to insult or question your Lost fan credentials.
I'm sure my post will be ignored by those that wish to be spoiled, but I'll try anyway.
I use to read spoilers for BSG, thinking it would be great to know ahead of time what is going to happen. But, I noticed that when I actually watched the episodes, knowing what was going to happen, it sort of just washed over me without any anticipation, without much emotion at all. I would never allow that to happen for Lost.
Last night's episode was simply incredible and had I known going in what was in store I would have been missing out on so many "OMG! OMG!" moments that it would have been a huge letdown.
Keep in mind that spoilers do nothing but take away from the show, it never enhances the experience.
DarkUFO.
I'm wondering, as blogspot is free, exactly what hosting costs are associated with the site... Your personal ISP costs are your responsibility, not those of your users, unless of course you have a limited company in the eyes of the UK Government.
I'm afraid that regardless of what the "fans" want, I've always been one to try and respect the show, and its creators. They hate spoilers, and don't want fans having things ruined... As a SysOp here I've desperately tried to remove spoilers wherever possible. We have had to block the Season 4 spoiler page on the wiki due to the announced publishing of this.
If Lostfan108 would publish them on another site instead of yours, for the community, it might be better to say "OK, post them elsewhere". As your site was responsible for the 8 months of radio silence last year, I would take that responsibility on and refuse to ruin Lost for so many people.
To post major spoilers like this, shows disrespect to Damon, Carlton, JJ, The cast, the fans and the show itself.
If I were you, I'd let ABC know who the leak is to stop the spoilers instead of profiting off it.
Thanks Nickb123, nice to see some level headed discussion from someone rather than just bluster and the "I hate spoilers" crowd (We get it already).
Well he mentioned me by name in his post so I took it personally and before running his article, it would have been common courtesy to contact the person you are writing about to a) At least warn them, B) Try to get a balanced view.
As for giving in to Lostfan108, yes I agree that's an argument, however, if he had just posted them wildly on a number of open message boards, can you imagine the chaos and hurt that would have caused? At least I tried to make sure that fellow fans were warned and that they could take steps to avoid un-moderated message boards, and for site owners to prepare pre made threads for the spoilers to be discussed.
Personally I would have preferred that Lostfan108 had not had contacted me, but when he did I felt I had no choice really.
No I agree, I think it would have been better if you were contacted prior to a discussion on the spoiler. I think a follow-up article should certainly be sought to look at the threat troll-like spoiler people pose, and I take your point that addressing someone by name without a heads up first is a little embarassing.
I'm wondering, as blogspot is free, exactly what hosting costs are associated with the site... Your personal ISP costs are your responsibility, not those of your users, unless of course you have a limited company in the eyes of the UK Government.
I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Blogspot itself is free but you have to externally host CSS, Javascript, PDF, Video Files and Players on external servers. With 150,000 hits per day that's a lot of bandwidth and cost.
No idea what you mean by my users. It's a free service I run in my spare time, I don't require them to pay to use the site and the ADs are are way to help me pay my costs.
Hope that is ok for you?
Anyone whose an end user of your site, is a user regardless of membership etc.
I'm still of the opinion that spoilers of this magnitude should be avoided at all costs, by all fan sites in respect to the creators, the show and the fans as a whole.
Never understood this 'spoiler' thing. How can he (the creator of DarkUFO) call himself a true fan and the next minute go and publish spoilers about the series? Does he have any respect for the whole staff working in such a marvelous show, which he claims to love? I hate these fanboys who call themselves fans. Attention whores I say, anything for one more click. I know I'm never visiting DarkUFO AGAIN.
Kudos Dark.
I am a huge fan of spoilers and love getting info early and discussing it with other spoiler junkies.
I think he has done a great job of warning and hiding the big spoilers, no other site does such a good job and I'd rather have dark release the spoilers in a controlled fashion rather than jerk just posting them on the net.
Just wanted to show you some support my friend.
and yes - poor form on the OP for not speaking to you first
You know, *I* used to be like that. I read the final chapter in books, I read everything I could about movies before seeing them, you get the picture.
Until I went to see Matrix. I had no idea what's about, none at all. I was simply blown away, refreshed in not knowing what's about to happen. Since then, I avoid spoilers like the plague.
DarkUFO posted the spoilers just to increase the site's exposure and make an extra buck. I run a site too and I know how it works. It's just too bad the relationship between us (the fans) and the show creators will become once again strained, so anyway you look at it, it's a disservice.
As for me, I'll avoid any spoilers. I'm not even watching the next-week teasers. I don't want to know anything in advance.
I WANT to be on the edge of the seat, I want to jump up (like when Dr. Arzt exploded), I want to utter "what the f..." and can't help feeling sorry for those who read a poorly written description of what's going to and then wonder what's so exciting about LOST.
Unfortunately, episode 12 didn't air on Thursday for every Lost fan. Everyone living outside the US of A, has to wait weeks or even months before they can see the episodes thata everyone is talking about on this and other forums. Since I belong to that group, I need spoilers or a transcript of the last episode (still waiting for that one, guys!) to follow the discussions on the net. So for me, spoilers are necessary, as I'd like to discuss the latest developments in this epic series.
And of course I have to admit that I'm weak and I can't wait until my local TV station will broadcast this episode, so bring on the spoilers!
manana and memento, thanks very much for the very kind words and support, it's very much appreciated indeed.
And Tom I hear ya. I get 100's of emails from people who can't watch episodes like you and they are very grateful for the spoilers.
I guess some people will always want to try and impose want they like and want on others.
i am perfectly okay with the spoilers. no one forces you to read them. get over it.
Hi Dark,
I'm very grateful for the stuff that you post on your site, so keep up the good work!
To everyone who hates spoilers, there's a very simple and effective solution : don't read them! Nobody forces you to read them, so stop whining about it.
I am having trouble understanding why people can't differentiate between tiny little spoilers, and the huge end of Season ones.
We should just simply not spoil them.
I am an avid fan of Dark's site and he does a fantastic job handling these spoilers.
He ALWAYS puts big spoilers behind a "Are You Sure?" button so that its up to you if you wanna read them or not.
I unfortunately read the ending to last seasons finale and was totally dissapointed.
The eppy synopsis will be posted on Dark's site on Sunday night or Monday morning and I know I'll find it EXTREMELY hard not to give in this year, seeing as the info will be right there in two days time and the ep won't be shown for another two weeks.
To all those out there who are thinking of spoiling it, don't. It's much better to be shocked!
I have a love-hate relationship with spoilers. I read them throughout Season 2 and had the first few episodes of Season 3 ruined for me by them, including the S3 opening scene.
Some people read spoilers to get a general idea of what's going to happen so they can revel in listening to their friends' reactions to a cool scene. That's kind of the ego-tripping side that I don't like.
I've read a few Season 4 spoilers, despite my best efforts to stay clean this year. Doing a little bit work for the DarkUFO site kind of makes it impossible for me to escape the presence of spoilers :-)
Some spoilers aren't bad though. While they might tell you what happens, they don't necessarily tell you exactly HOW it happens. When I found out Shannon was slated to die in Season 2, I wasn't sure how they were going to do it. I was still on the edge of my seat the whole time because I didn't know when or how it would come.
I don't necessarily like the fact that DarkUFO has such thorough spoilers on the finale, but at least he is containing them in some way. He makes a good point about Lostfan108's ability to throw these secrets all over the Internet with no regard to spoiler-avoiders. Dark's controlled release can't prevent trolls from throwing these spoilers on other message boards, but the chances are that moderators for other message boards read all the spoilers as well. This way they know to ban and block people posting those same spoilers.
If you're looking for someone to blame, don't blame DarkUFO for supplying spoilers. Blame the millions of fans who seek an inside scoop. They're the one's creating a market for spoilers. If there was no demand for spoilers, sites like DarkUFO and Doc Arzt would be pointless and would have fizzled up long ago. Supply and demand folks. Fans demand spoilers so some people supply them. Supply without demand is what jerks and trolls do by throwing them in our faces just to ruin things for us. That's not DarkUFO or any of the other spoiler sites.
Don't blame the spoiler sites for "leaking" spoilers. The real leaks are coming from ABC, the studio and the production crews. If ABC wants to stop spoilers from spreading, then they need to clean house and institute a "Nanny State" for the show's production. Since this is America, that won't happen, so take your quasi-socialistic dreams of a spoiler-free utopia elsewhere. I bet 95% of spoiler readers are responsible with the information they obtain.
If we really wanted to be 100% spoiler free then we shouldn't post episode reviews and transcripts until the episodes have aired in every single country across the world. Some poor fellow from another country where Season 4 doesn't even start until June could stumble on this site and have the whole season spoiled. Just because the show has aired in one country, does that give any of us the right to talk about it? My fiancee still hasn't seen The Sixth Sense but nobody discusses the ending around her even though the film has been around for a decade.
When is a spoiler not a spoiler? Maybe that is the question we should be asking.
I personally don't like spoilers too much but I have no problem with others posting them. Most often there is a warning on what the content will be. Simply stay away from those areas. It is not that hard. This should not be this big a deal.
@plkrtn
Why?
It seems as if you are attaching some sort of negative ethical and/or moral value to spoiling what is on a television show?
I read spoilers here and there, but with the Lost the show has definitely gotten my attention back to a point where I personally don't need to.
Some people want to that's their own choice -- and furthermore as long as there is reasonable warnings about it, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it because spoilers can often come up in the most random of places AND you won't get a warning, I think it's a courtesy that the guy does give a warning because he clearly doesn't have to, BUT -- he respects the fanbase enough to.
Let's just let the man do what he wants provided it's not illegal.
And also you're talking about advertising, website costs, whatever. Well Lostpedia does it too, I went to read the episode summary for last night's episode after I saw it and there's all these green-texted advertising words. So why do you use this site if there's all this advertising and what not going on?
I also mind it somewhat amusing that there is so much heat over this when there are clearly bigger issues in life. Oh, the amusement of the Internet.
I'm fine with little teasers for the episode, the ABC released bits and pieces, and fun little hints at what could possibly happen, but I read scene by scene spoilers on pretty much every episode last season (including the finale) and in retrospect it ruined the season for me. Like I said I don't care about teasers and tidbits for each episode, but posting the whole season finale? I don't care how many precautions you take it's going to end up getting ruined for someone. JJ Abrams would be disappointed in the people that read spoilers like these, and Darlton basically said last season that they were disappointed in fans that read the season finale last season. Once I realized how much these guys care about the show and how it's presented (should have figured it out when they buried Niki and Paulo alive) That's when I said enough was enough.
Spoilers don't ruin the show for me at all. In fact, I often like to have an idea of what will happen so I don't miss anything. For anyone not wishing to be spoiled, maybe spoiler sites like DarkUFO are a poor choice of reading material for you.
I used to read a good deal of spoilers. But I realized at some point, they weren't worth it. The show gives you enough to eat for a week, why do you have to be so gluttonous with your Lost?
And the problems with spoilers like this is that some jackass 13 year old is going to read it and then post his "theory" on how the Oceanic 6 get off the Island and then I read his "theory", think it's pretty good and then SHITFACE it was the read deal. People have a very hard time keeping spoiler information from people who avoid them. It kinda sucks.
I really think that if DarkUFO wants to know the spoiler, he should know. But to post it on the Internet as he does is ridiculously irresponsible and rude.
I can see I'm very much in the minority here, but I enjoy discovering spoilers, and I visit sites like Spoilerfix and the spoiler sections of Dark UFO and 9th Wonders regularly.
Other posters here have talked about suspense, surprise, etc., but they're restricting the place where the thrill of that discovery can happen as *only* on the show. I get a thrill out of finding answers and new information in *lots* of places!
I like to read spoilers and then mull them over in the days and weeks before the air date. There have been times when knowing certain things in advance has allowed me to spot related things in an episode that I would have missed otherwise. Sometimes, it's interesting to look at the statements and clues studios release publicly in light of spoilers I already know.
LOST appeals to inquisitive fans, who like following and solving mysteries, uncovering clues and information, etc. For some of us, tracking down spoilers plays right into the same appeal.
I'm glad for Dark, Lostfan108 and the extras and other "spies" to favor us with special insider knowledge. Keep up the great work!
$0.02,
Bob
I'm a great fan of DarkUFO. I get that some fans are spoiler-free--I'm one of them. But I have never had a problem remaining unspoiled by Dark. If you visit his sight, you will see that spoilers comprise a specific tab that the user has to deliberately access to read. He does not allow spoilers in forum discussions or comments in any of the discussions other than in those on the spoiler page. In fact, I never knew that there was a spoiler for the finale until I saw this article.
Besides this, calling into question his fandom is unfounded. DarkUFO runs his sight with other fans on a volunteer basis. If there are new features that users want on the sight, he makes an effort to organize and find volunteers to support them. If he makes ANY money off of running the sight, he certainly earns it. He creates contests and games with prizes to keep us sane during the Lost breaks. He updates the sight often more than once daily. He responds personally to emails and comments directed at him. He even informed his users when he went on vacation and appointed an interrum Dark to keep up with us! All this is not even to mention the administrative work that he must put into the site to keep it running and updated through many time-zones.
I am assured that DarkUFO is not only a fan of the show, but a fan of the fans. And if fans want to remain unspolied, great! Go to sights that you are sure you can trust like this one, and DarkUFO.
I use the Dark Ufo site a lot, and appreciate the work that goes into it.
Part of me really likes the spoilers, and the other part gets disapointed in myself because I just won't wait.
Anyway, I don't think everyone should be mad at the admin at Dark Ufo.
Why Haven't the producers of the show just figure out where the leak is coming from?
I can see it happening once, but two years in a row? ABC needs to figure out who it is that they can not trust and just put an end to it. If it's some entertainment reporter they need to stop releasing the episodes early to them for review.
If it's post production people, figure out whos working for you and put an end to it.
Hey DarkUFO --
Not sure if you're still reading this, but I have something to ask you. Why are you posting the spoilers for part 2 and 3 so early? I'm an op in the Lostpedia IRC chat and we have decided to set the chat to moderated mode, which means only other ops and users who are "voiced" can talk. All regular users are voiced, but it really makes the chat suck for the casual user. We obviously can't remember the nick of every user that has been in the chat before. When someone with a nick we don't recognize joins, we have no choice but to assume they are a troll. It really makes the chat suck for people who don't use it at least a few times a week. Why not wait a little bit longer to release them?
I was originally going to write this entry, but I didn't have any time to until after the episode aired, and that is pretty much an elaborated form of what I was going to say.
Oh, just to clarify, we are only setting the chat to moderated mode after the Lostfan108 spoilers are out. We're normal for now but will be back to it soon.
Damn trolls.
Hi Danhm,
The reason is, as I've already stated, is that if I don't post them by that date, lostfan108 will release them on an unmoderated site and they will spread without any warning and multiple users will get spoiled.
The date is NOT my choice. Given the chance I would not have posted them until 1-2 days before the episode like we've done in the past with InsiderScoop and PostProduxtion Synopsis's for Season 2, 3 and 4.
I have to admit to being a reader of any spoilers I can find. But it doesn't diminish the episode at all.. I actually look forward to it more. The reason is that what I am reading is just words. The actors/actresses make the words come alive. And they are the reason I watch LOST.
great stuff, Dark.. it's obvious to me that some of these people arent even reading your posts...
i personally DO NOT want to be fully spoiled on the finale.. all i want to know is whether or not Locke is in the coffin... that's the only thing i need to know before the show airs because i have to make sure it's not him.. lol.. that may not make sense to some of you.. but it does to me.. and i dont care...
i dont see why some people get so angry.. Dark is doing this the most responsible way he can.. the guy said he was going to leak it somewhere else if Dark didnt post it.. what more do some of you want? it's like you're not even reading Dark's posts...
I think I would rather be teased than spoiled. I try to steer clear of any posts that tell me it is a spoiler. Yes there are questions that have not been answered on the show, but I expect them to come in due time. Have some patience. If you want to write your review of the show, do it just about the time Lost starts, then no one will read it until the show is over.
I'm not sure I understand this argument from Dark...
"if I didn't post the spoilers Lostfan108 said that he would post them on another site, without warning and would have spoiled it for more people. I took it upon myself to release them in the most controlled manner possible unlike last year when Lostfan108 posted them openly on the AICN message boards without any warning."
So are you saying that by controlling the spoiler on the DarkUfo site you are helping to stem the flow of the spoiler on the internet in general? I'm sorry but that is a totally incorrect assumption. If you didn't post the spoiler on the site, you are right, Lostfan108 would just go somewhere else but by posting that spoiler on your site you just become part of the proliferation of the spoiler. It doesn't matter how many flashing spoiler banners or other methods you use to prevent people from accidentally reading it, ultimately you are just part of the problem, not the solution. Choosing to post the spoiler just reeks of self promotion and a cheap way to drive web traffic to your site.
And for those who say "if you don't like reading spoilers, just avoid them" do not realize how hard that becomes when major spoilers are all over the internet. Last season the finale was ruined for me when an entertainment reporter on a local newscast, after Greatest Hits aired, let everyone know that he heard that next weeks episode will include a flash-forward. Is that my fault for watching the news? I had avoided spoilers about the finale and it was ruined for me anyway. I actually emailed that report to complain and he apologized and said he saw it on the internet but didn't realize that would be the big twist at the end of the episode. Now notice what he said, he saw it on the internet. Why is that important? Because sites like DarkUfo and others make the information available. At least if Dark didn't post that, it would have been one less place the spoiler would have appeared. Once again, proving my point that posting it at all is just a part of the problem, not a means for a solution. So this "just don't read spoilers” argument doesn't hold any water because I didn't read any spoilers and I was still spoiled because of the information on the internet.
Such a great debate. I have to chime in and say that I am a spoiler free viewer. Thank you LOSTUNLOCKED! I consider myself an uber-fan of the show. The work generated by the creative team of LOST is unsurpassed in every way. No show has ever generated discussion like LOST, almost no show causes its viewers to sit down and actually write theories about what is going on and no show is as unpredictable as LOST. For this reason I have the utmost respect for what Damon and Carlton head up. My dream is no to meet Matt Fox or Evie, but to someday have lunch with Damon and Carlton and talk LOST. It is for that reason that I feel sad for them when any spoiler comes out big or small. It is a burglary of their work.
Certainly Damon, Carlton et al are most proud of the end of the seasons twists, turns and reveals. You can tell when you hear them in interviews or on podcasts. So I feel their disappointment when the wind is taken out of their sails. It's most defiantly like someone breaking into their home while they're sleeping and stealing their most valued possessions. Totally violated! However, in this corrupt society we live in, it's inevitable. Someone at ABC most likely, wants not to bless all of LOST fandom, but wants to feel important by having access to information that they know is important to lots of people. They get their 15 minutes of fame.
While I am sure LOSTFAN108 has actually violated some agreement they've signed or a copyright law or something along those lines it's just bound to happen. I do think that DARK handles this type of thing in the wisest way he knows how. He genuinely wants to do what he stated above. I have no doubt. By being contacted at all DARK is put in a tough position. Let LOSTFAN throw the spoilers all over ABC, the Fuselage, LOSTPEDIA and anything else he can get his hands on or open himself (DARK) up to such ridicule and try to do damage control? DARK, I hate spoilers like nothing else, but I do think you are doing what is best for LOST fans everywhere.
Best advice to those that don't want to be spoiled in any way- stay away from anything LOST related on the net until its over!
darkufo is always considerate of those who do not want to be spoiled and moderates the comments sections pretty closely to make sure no one is spreading spoilers outside the designated thread.
I think people can both enjoy the spoilers and have them enhance the viewing experience.
If you don't want to read spoilers, then don't. But also make sure you aren't watching Kristen, Ausillio or any other entertainment news, listening to morning drive talk radio, or hanging around the water cooler.
Spoilers happen. Hell, you get a spoiler if you don't turn off the television the moment Lost ends each week, so stop complaining.
Kudos to DarkUFO for being the whipping post that everyone loves to visit!
I like the spoilers,..they do not ruin a thing for me. I use them as insight into what 'may' be coming next, but as we know, a spoiler may not be written in stone. If it is,..I still don't care. I still watch the show, regardless of any spoiler that I may read. I would like to see the spoilers continue.
I like the teasers, not the spoilers. I like the teasers because they advance very little and keep my interest up. I don't like the spoilers that reveal major twists because they do spoil the thrill of watching the show.
But I can stay away from them. All I ask from others is that they mark the content as spoilers clearly at the top of the page.
I don't mind if people publish them or read them, but I think it's important that they mark them as spoilers so that we have a choice.
it's a TV SHOW people. i looked at the spoiler synopsis on Dark UFO: he went through a lot to protect those who don't want to know. to each his own..i don't think it's some moral great debate. if you don't want to know, stay off of those sites. it really isn't that difficult.
I just find it amazing that, because DarkUFO posts it, its assumed that it won't be posted all over the web without warning anyway, which it will be... and if it was that much of a "post under duress" why is it being promoted for days by polls and comments on the website?
Alvin- I am not sure if your "why" was to me or not. But no I don't attach anything negative to spoilers or people who read or post them. I just personally like to wait until after the show has aired to review that sort of thing to see if there was something I missed.
I think people are being way to critical of the DarkUFO site. For people to say that it is an "ego trip" or that "DarkUFO posted the spoilers just to increase the site's exposure and make an extra buck." is ridiculous and unfair. Unless they know him personally they can't say why he posts what he does. If you don't like his site, don't visit it.
To the person that doesn't want to read the spoiler as someone else's theory. If you don't want to be spoiled, then don't read the theory section for the episodes that haven't aired yet.
I support DarkUFO's site and will continue to do so.
Thanks to all the nice comments and support, much appreciated.
At the end of the day:
1) These spoilers WILL get out
2) They can either be released carefully and controlled giving site owners the chance to take measure or they can be released without warning.
3) If people are SO worried about reading the spoilers by some troll reposting, then if it matters so much to you you should simply avoid Lost message boards and forums.
Oh and spoiler.. Vincent is Jacob :)
Just avoid spoilers? Andy we both post at IMDB and we both know there are at least a dozen idiots who post in the subject header things like "spoiler: charlie dies" and "mwhahaha" in the actual posting.
If you cared you would forward the details of Lostfan108 to ABC/Bad Robot but you want the notoriety and of being the Lost Harry Knowles. Go play your poker and stop ruining the show for millions of fans.
BFD. I am chosing not to look at the spoilers, but I applaud DarkUFO for making them available for whomever wants to see them. If you don't want to read them don't - and if some a-hole goes out of his way to trick me into reading them on some other site/board; well, I will survive and I will still enjoy the show. I ignored the warnings last time and read the snake-in-the-mailbox spoiler. I was immediately disappointed that I did, but I still emjoyed the finale.
Some people enjoy spoilers and I have no problem with them enjoying the show in their own way.
One other thing; for me, I consider the risk of being spoiled to be part of the fun in going to so many sites about the show. It's fun to look for tiny details, discuss them with other fans, read the books referenced in the show, read up on authors and academics referenced and yes, dodging spoilers is fun too - IMO.
"If you cared you would forward the details of Lostfan108 to ABC/Bad Robot but you want the notoriety and of being the Lost Harry Knowles."
You know what...this is an even better idea. I am all for exposing this person. Turn them over to ABC so Damon and Carlton can deal with them. As I said before, this person (LOSTFAN108) is probably in violation of some agreement by leaking this info whether it be a work contract or general copyright. Hang 'em high! It's not too late!
I follow and agree with the calls for Lostfan108 to be exposed, rather than the spoilers be released. But where are the $$ in that??
Honor is strongest amongst thieves.
Let's avoid using ad hominem attacks, thank you.
Also, I do agree that spoilers are generally a violation of contract because chances are the person has inside access or whatever, but how is it a violation of general copyright?
I don't think he is taking credit for such things, merely posting it. It's not like he's posting copyrighted material either, just spoilers about what is going to happen. Now if he took scripts and posted them that would be a copyright violation, but since I haven't looked at these spoilers, I don't think that is what he is doing.
Wow I find the "no true fan" comments to be somewhat arrogant. Everyone has their own preference when it comes to how they watch a show. Some people like no spoilers at all, even "next week" trailers or episode titles. Some like a little. Some like to have a play by play. Some people like to watch live, some like to watch it later on tivo, some like to wait for the DVD box set. This world is big enough for all of us. I think DarkUFO is doing a great job with his site and has handled the spoilers responsibly. I'd rather the spoilers get posted there with the proper precautioned than randomly around the internet with no warning.
i've been reading Dark's site for a few years now. I have a shortcut to the spoiler section in my favourites, and i check it several times a day. I didn't read the full synopsis for last year's finale, but i did read the 'part one' that went up yesterday. i havn't decided whether i'll read the other parts or not yet.
funnily enough, i'm in a good position here. I've lived spoiler free, I've lived with spoilers closely followed by episodes and i've lived with just the synopses of episodes. the latter when season 2 was airing in usa and i wasn't in a position to illegally download episodes.
i like spoilers. for me they just increase the anticipation of the episode. knowing how it twists or turns in advance doesn't ruin it. hell, when you read the synopsis you can have your own little WTF moment, then watch it and see if it lives up to your expectation.
the best thing is, reading a synopsis means i'm playing out the scene in my head, like you do when you read a book. you get your own version of the events.
and anyone who says movies are better than books in lying...
i have no doubt that Dark is a huge LOST fan, hell he even berated me once for trying to get someone into trouble over copyright theft in the 'find815' game.
and as for these spoilers ruining the show for none spoiler fans, i moderate a little haven of the lostiverse that has a very strict spoiler policy. it helps me to help those guys that i know in advance what is and isn't a spoiler. and i know the guys on that site have never been ruined by insiderscoop, postprod or lostfan108, so i know it can be done...
Most people don't seem to realize it's not just about avoid reading these spoilers, but also Damon and Carlton probably going into "radio silence" again for the rest of the year. You surely realize they will not be happy about this, why would they? They have the right to be angry, and we will be the ones paying the price, having NO information about the show during until next year. They give us one of the best shows ever, and how do these people thank them? Pissing them off. That's just great.
Who are all you people who can't dodge spoilers? On almost all occasions, pages put up warnings (Lostpedia does a fantastic job of labeling everything) and if DarkUFO has a reputation for ruining things, don't go to that website! It is easy to steer clear of blog sites that are out to ruin the show. Lostpedia has a page devoted to spoilers and locks up the regular episode pages until after.
I could see making the mistake to see a spoiler once, but not every week.
and i really do not understand the concerns of a few people aboult the radio silence that CC & DL may impose after his latest breach...
you dont like spoilers anyway! surely you'd prefer to just wait for the next lot of episodes, in 9 months time...?
When will people realise it isn't just about avoiding spoilers, its about respecting the wishes of the creators of the show.
The creators don't want finale spoilers in particular out there, why is it so hard for people to respect that wish, and actually be surprised?
Last year, because of it they refused to enter ANY discussion of the following season... the famed "radio silence" because of the same site and the similar spoilers... Why are people insisting on doing this again? Can't people just respect their wishes?
I do not bow to the altar of Darlton.
They created a relly cool show - I will enjoy it on my own terms; if I want to read spoilers, I will; guilt free.
And as bent as they were last year; they still dropped the Orchid video at Comic-Con.
But really, why would a spoilerphobe care to hear discussion about the upcoming season? Shouldn't they just be content to sit back and let the series "unfold naturally" ;-)
If you read the actual quotation, you'll see that the spoilers were not the cause for the radio silence.
"...with regard to season four, Carlton and I are going into complete and utter radio silence. I know a lot of people are going to be frustrated, but I think if things had gone a little differently in terms of the finale getting spoiled, we might have been a little more open to talking about it. But now we're all bitter. No, honestly, the reason for the silence is we don’t want to tell the audience what to think about where the show is going to be next year. The way the finale concluded and what happens next is open to interpretation. I think it had a real imaginative quality to it that hopefully engaged the audience's imagination the way the show did when they first saw the pilot."
Let's try and get the facts straight. Yes, they did feel like the line was crossed, but the spoiler themselves were NOT the reason for them not wanting to talk.
Furthermore, they themselves spoiled things, so why wouldn't people get "mad" at that? Because they created the show? Well under the NO SPOILERS logic some of you people have, you should be mad about that too.
I personally have no problem with spoilers, although I hate getting things spoiled to me when I don't want to be spoiled.
However, the main point I'm trying to make is that there IS another viewpoint on this issue and I think you guys need to at least affirm that it exists, whether or not you agree.
If you don't want to read spoilers then one should not look on the internet for them.
and if you are looking for spoilers go to DARKUFO.
I stick to Lostpedia for any questions about Lost and I always avoid spoilers.
soo...stick to Lostpedia and stop complaining about spoilers.
i don't see the issue.
I love Lost spoilers & feel they enhance my understanding and viewing of the show. I love DarkUFO - without him I'd be so confused as to what is going on.
Oddly, Lost is the only show I read spoilers about.
I was spoiler free last season, but when I found out that that website posted it I was furious. It really would cripple the episode experience.
Again, I'm ignoring spoilers, but I really do wonder how this spoiler source hasn't been shut down. Wasn't there an investigation last year because only like 12 people knew the ending? I think I'm most surprised they haven't been caught yet.
Although, I do believe spoilers should be out there for people who NEED them. I do prefer vague spoilers like the ones Ausiello posts.
Mark makes some great points.. to some people this is just a flippin' TELEVISION SHOW as incredible as that may seem..
If one's so vehemently anti-spoiler to the point of getting visibly shaken.. why not use your OWN bevy of time and/or resources to "expose" lostfan108 after the finale airs?
Waste your time a petition, an E-campaign, doing SOMETHING that expends some real EFFORT other than just espousing flippant criticisms in an LP comments thread then GOING ABOUT YOUR DAY... maybe that's all some of you want to do.. meh, each their own, lol.
Honestly, many a spoilerphobe reads like this: "It may sound like all i want Darkufo to do is stop with the spoilers.. but what i'm REALLY getting at is if Darkufo wants us to consider him a real 'LOST fan', he's gotta spend all his 'website fortune' to find LOSTFAN108, then march over to his house and flagellate him til the sins on Dark's hands are awash in LOSTFAN108's blood. Darlton be praised! Meanwhile, i'll make comment section dogmas, watching carefully while lounging atop my own moral high ground."
The ball's in YOUR court spoilerphobes.. if YOU want this to end then YOU do something about it.
But soon realize that if the Altar of Darlton can't seem to plug these leaks then they just might be unavoidable. UNLESS you can STAY OFF LOST SITES UNTIL AFTER THE FINALE AIRS.. It's your problem, it's NOT going away, so DEAL..
DarkUFO can come up with any justification he wants for posting these major spoilers, and he can be even spin it so that he makes himself out to be a kind of hero because if he didn't do Lostfan108 would post them somewhere else. That's his right.
But it doesn't change the fact that DarkUFO's website was singled out last year as the main reason why the Lost Boys went into "radio silence." How do you justify that one, bud?
It's not your responsibility to deal with Lostfan108, and I find it a very convenient ultimatum for your web-traffic that you simply MUST post these spoilers on your website or Lostfan108 will post them everywhere. You're like an American hero!
Damon and Carlton don't like what you're doing. They have said so publicly. And yet you call yourself a fan and say you're supportive of the show. Actions speak louder than words, I'm afraid, and it's pretty clear the only thing you support is your own interests.
I don't see why it's a difficult concept for some responders here that supporting these point-by-point spoilers is a horrible injustice to everyone concerned. Again, the concept that the spoiler will just go elsewhere is erroneous. Tell them to go elsewhere; in all likelyhood, Lostfan108 would not be able to get it out to enough people to make a huge difference on the internet. By putting it on a well populated site, regardless of how it is hidden by the owner, it opens the spoilers up to a bigger audience of people to copy the spoilers to other venues, including LP where our great Admins will then have to go into overdrive to remove it and block/ban the people adding it. It's a crappy thing to do to the audience, who cannot avoid such nonsense no matter how hard we try because some idiot will always "forget" to mark it spoiler, but it's also very disrespectful to the writers and producers who work so hard to give us a great show. I'd be pissed too.
spoilers SPOIL everything! it takes away all the magic of the show. i did the huge mistake of letting myself spoiled last year, i'm not going to do it again, that's for sure!
I think that if someone wants to read spoilers, that is their business. Dark UFO has a section called "spoilers" and if anyone that wants to remain spoiler-free, they shouldn't go into a section called *spoilers*. It's not like he posted the spoilers on the main site for all to see. If you want to be spoiled, then read the spoilers. If you don't, then don't. I don't see how that is a controversy.
Some of you Lost fans out there really think that you are really special, don't you? Other people liked to be spoiled, whether its because there in the UK or if they just like knowing what's going to happen sooner so they can discuss earlier. But you people, like plkrton, must find it really hard to judge people all the way up there on your high horse. Alvin already posted about how the producers didn't go into radio silence because of the spoilers but still you people try to bring it up like it's fact. And someone also already pointed out that THE PRODUCERS RELEASE SPOILERS TOO! Why don't you take your high and mighty approach to them? Instead you'd rather try to verbally beat up someone who you don't even know and probably never been to his site. Once again, this is just a classic example of people who are so unhappy in there own lives that they feel the need to try and tell everyone else how to live theres. Get over yourselves, people!
Sorry Dark, but at least to me you are 100% wrong on spoilers. I've looked at the site for a long time, and I have no problem watching the occasional teaser trailer, but posting the season finale is just too much.
And I don't know since when "If I didn't do it, someone else would do it" was a valid excuse to doing something bad. The fact that you are trying to make excuses for it means you know it's bad, and yet you did it anyway.
I'd respect you more if at least you admitted that, instead of trying to come off like you didn't do anything.
Also, about your 20,000 people wanting spoilers and DarkUFO being a democracy, since when does someone get to start up a self-made democracy that gets to vote on being the catalyst for ruining something for everyone else?
Yeah, free country, I know, but that fact nor however many spoiler readers support you makes any of it the correct thing to do.
my heart beats strong and my hands sweet a lotta when i watch a episode spoiler free...i love that sensation of fear...the spoilers is some kind of trip to the future...i'm running against it to the end!
I have to admit to being a reader of any spoilers I can find. But it doesn't diminish the episode at all.. I actually look forward to it more. The reason is that what I am reading is just words. The actors/actresses make the words come alive. And they are the reason I watch LOST.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm having trouble understanding this "You shouldn't post spoilers because it'll make Damon and Carlton upset" argument. So what if they're upset? I'm not a friend of theirs; I'm a fan of theirs. Unless they get so angry about it that they elect to tank the final two seasons out of spite, I couldn't care less about their personal feelings. It's the art that matters and nothing else.
If it is the art that matters, then surely you have to respect the artists involved. Leaking information about the finale does completely the opposite, and fails to respect anyone.
I find it amazing that posters can't differentiate between leaks of information like spoiling the massive cliff hanger at the end of a season, and the drips of information that the production team release like the orchid video, or any teaser spoilers that the producers use. Posters like brianamolsch and lynchmob are either very immature in their arguments, or in denial about the severity of different spoilers. Spoiling the end of the seasons in order to generate advertising cash over the integrity of the show is just low. Very low.
Damon and Carlton were upset by the leak of last year's finale and to do this is VERY DISRESPECTFUL to them and all the people who work HARD for the show!
The writers went through a HARD TIME with the STRIKE and now to have their BEST WORK LEAKED is just RIDICULOUS!
Damon and Carlton try to avoid giving answers in their PODCASTS and INTERVIEWS and to have a THIRD PARTY release this is PATHETIC!
I am SPOILER-FREE but now THIS gives any idiot the ability to post it anywhere they want!
I am BOYCOTTING DARK's site.
He knows better than to disrespect everyone who works on the show!
IF this happens now-it will happen AGAIN in the future!
I should be able to surf the internet on my favorite show and not be in fear that some idiot will ruin the finale for me!
This is a terrible thing to do to all the people that work hard on keeping this show a wonderful mystery!
I'll let Damon speak for himself on this topic. Taken from the lostpedia section on LAST YEAR'S leak of the finale by DARK UFO...
"It was unfortunate. I think there will always be people who want to turn to the last page of the book, but I feel that those people are almost universally disappointed with what they read there, because if it's cool, they don't understand the context, and if it sucks, they feel like they've saved themselves time. But no one skips to the end of life. You have to live it, and it's just disappointing to me that people don't respect the integrity of the show enough to let it unfold naturally. There is a fine line between intriguing the audience with what's to come and giving them the whole shebang. And I feel the line was crossed with the finale this year, and it's really disappointing....Carlton and I are going into complete and utter radio silence. I know a lot of people are going to be frustrated, but I think if things had gone a little differently in terms of the finale getting spoiled, we might have been a little more open to talking about it. But now we're all bitter."
For those of you who don't understand. You like to watch the show every week and be surprised while watching it. I would prefer to read the synopsis and be surprised while reading it, then watch the episode. I'm sorry if you have an issue with that, but that's what I would prefer. It ruins it for me by NOT posting the synopsis. I call it Reverse-Spoilerism. If you hate spoilers SO MUCH, why can't you have the self control to stay away from these sites ?
Thanks for posting that niki815. That's it right there, from the horse's mouth so to speak.
No doubt they will now do the same thing again so to those defending the detailed finale spoilers, is it worth it? I mean you find out what happens for something that will air in 2 weeks time and you will pay for it by having the creators not talk about the show for the next 8 or 9 months!
And again, i wish people would stop saying "just don't read them". We don't have a choice when there are immature people on almost every Lost board (and often unrelated boards) that post the huge spoilers in the subject lines out of spite and to have a laugh or annoy other people.
You don't know how many times that has happened to me and 99% of that is thanks to DarkUFO. Truth be told he obviously doesn't care about myself and the thousands like me.
Again, Lucas (and others) miss the point. It's not a lack of self-control, but rather knowing from experience that some idiot will copy the material to other venues (like Lostpedia) where even if it's caught very quickly, it's still likely to be seen by some who did not want the thing ruined for them. There is always some idiot(s) who will scream spoilers without tags, and once you accidently see those idiot's words ("JOESCHMOE IS IN THE COFFIN"), you can't 'unsee' them. It's too late, and someone is spoiled who did not want to be spoiled. It's irresponsible and people are rightfully angry.
actually, on reflection, and in fairness to some of the aggressive critics of darkufo... People who do not wish to be spoiled, are somehow expected to not visit the non spoiler lost sites for thier own enjoyment? I was spoiled in this way, before i discovered spoiler sites at all, for the season 3 finale - just some guy whose post title was ''ITS A FLASHFORWARD'' so i do understand this anger. there will always be 'some idiot'
Perhaps though it is not enough to be angry towards these re-posters. Its not darkufos fault either - its the leaker. I know now that the finale parts 2 and 3 are set to be published today, a week and a half before its air date! thats going to make it very hard to not accidentally read, if i go onto any website related to lost! maybe its going too far for there to be full synopsis' after all? i get the thrill of getting little titbits in the build up to an eppy... but i dont get preferring to read the synopsis, when the eppy will be on tv a matter of hours later!
once again, make sure you know who to point the finger at. its not Dark, hes actually doing all he can to lessen the spoilers impact - the people to blame are the ones who shamlessley re-post the info, and the original leaks themelves.
No doubt they will now do the same thing again so to those defending the detailed finale spoilers, is it worth it? I mean you find out what happens for something that will air in 2 weeks time and you will pay for it by having the creators not talk about the show for the next 8 or 9 months!
Well yes, yes it is. The creators willingness or unwillingness to talk about the show in no way effects the actual quality of the show they make, so I see no reason why that should concern me. In the end, the art is the only thing that matters, and if Damon and Carlton want to put a cap on talking about the show, that's there prerogative just like it's my prerogative to read detailed spoilers if they become available. If they want to spend the next nine months in silence, then fine, patience is a virtue.
The writers should take a leaf out of Ben's book and release a load of fake spoilers.
As for DarkUFO, seriously, what's the fucking point?! Just so you have bragging rights? Is that it? So you feel "cool" for about a week? Try growing a back-bone and discarding whatever spoilers you get, eh? Do the right thing.
Once again plrktn, get off your high horse and come down here with the rest of us immature Lost viewers. You make it seem that its okay that Darlton releases little "teaser spoilers" as you put it, but if any one else does it they should have their Lost cards revoked. I understand that releasing a whole synopsis is quite different then a spoiler here and a spoiler there, but with all of you "spoiler free" people it shouldn't make a difference. If you value your spoiler free exsistence, then it shouldn't matter. But once again, you'd rather try to verbally beat up not only the people that post spoilers, but the people that read them too.
And how many times does it need to be written down? Scroll up this page and a poster named Alvin put down word for word why Darlton went into radio silence last year, and it wasn't because of the finale being spoiled. But you people would rather try to bring it up like its a fact still. And personally, I don't give two shits if Damon and Carlton don't like spoilers. That's their decision but it doesn't have anything to do with me. And honestly people, what are they going to do? Stop making the show because people are getting spoiled? Grow up, get off your high horses, and also please realize that even if people are putting out spoilers, its not like they are trying to claim the episode as thier own. Guess what? Its still being written and produced by Darlton and no one can take that away from them.
Hopefully that was mature enough of an argument for you plrktn.
And m. its not really fair to say the Dark doesn't care about you and the thousands like you. What he does care about is the other thousands of people that actually want to be spoiled for whatever reason. The fact of the matter is, you can't please everyone and unfortunatly for you people, there is just as many people that want to be spoiled as you. So like another poster already pointed out, its out there, you can't do anything about it, so why spend all this time bitching and moaning to a guy that didn't even have anything to do with what happened last season. He is trying his best to control the flow and if you people think that lostfan108 wouldn't have gotten the info out through some other means, then you are really fooling yourself. And to call him not a fan should tell you how misinformed you people are. No one would spend that much time creating and maintaining a very popular website if he wasn't a fan. So get over yourselves.
Firstly, G-Man. You know your my bro, but to say my site would frizzle without spoilers is not true. My site is about exclusive content, not spoilers. But that is an excellent segue to the thrust of this topic.
I've made my standpoint pretty clear on spoilers. Once they are out there, people are going to either read them or not. It's all a personal decision at that point.
As a publisher though, I have to say that my PERSONAL philosophy, and I don't necessarily hold everybody to my own standards, is that if I'm going to publish a spoiler I'm not going to publish anything that could potentially ruin someones enjoyment of the show. PERIOD. I've done it in the past, it felt icky, and I won't do it again.
I could spoil the finale right now. And I'd probably get a boatload of traffic from you. Those of you who have been following my quizzes and stuff over the last few weeks, and my advanced viewing of season four KNOW that I could have spoiled the season before anyone that I know of in the blogosphere. The temptation was there because, again, the spoilers ARE a huge draw, but in the end of the day they aren't all there is to this show.
The show is much more than just wanting to know what happens before it airs. If anything, the appetite for spoilers is a testament to the show's ability to elicit a fever pitch of anticipation.
But let's face it. If you skip ahead to the end of a book after reading the first chapter, what are you made of? Are you the type that revel in the subtleties of artistic execution, or are you one of the 'instant gratification' junkies that would be better suited to movies, or one-off episodic shows? This is all debatable, of course, but I'd go with the ADHD explanation myself. If you are addicted to the info and just can't stop reading spoilers, you lack the patience and open mindedness the show demands.
To that end, I think spoiling for the sake of provoking thought, carefully concealing the major "twists," and fueling that sense of anticipation and excitement is great. Depriving fans of the thrill of the unknown, not so much.
Let's talk about the logic of this "if I don't spoil it, somebody else will" argument though. I cannot get Dark's back on this, and to buy into it is simply relying on flimsy logic to inoculate yourself from being in the ruiner crowd. It makes no sense to me that the reason for releasing the spoilers is to prevent their spread. You can shoe-horn that into logic, but it will pop back out everytime. If you publish them, you are spreading them, and you have to live with the repercussions from it. For once, I'd like to see the truth said about this: they are released for TRAFFIC. Pure and simple. The idea that it is a public service to prevent the spread is ridiculous. Particularly since Dark's site is mainly a hub of information posted in dozens of other locations.
But let's face it. If you skip ahead to the end of a book after reading the first chapter, what are you made of? Are you the type that revel in the subtleties of artistic execution, or are you one of the 'instant gratification' junkies that would be better suited to movies, or one-off episodic shows? This is all debatable, of course, but I'd go with the ADHD explanation myself. If you are addicted to the info and just can't stop reading spoilers, you lack the patience and open mindedness the show demands.
That's an ill-conceived blanket statement that is frankly condescending in every way. I find that knowing where the story is going ahead of time makes me more able to appreciate "the subtleties of artistic execution." Whenever I rewatch certain shows like "Lost" or "The Wire", I find that I'm better able to notice subtle pieces of foreshadowing within a character's personality or in the basic plot machinery. Any actual surprises or twists are the least significant and least enduring aspects of any kind of story. So please stop trying to group a very large number of people into some offensive category like "Those of weak minds." Is that fair?
Spoilers ruin the show. I enjoy going in to the episode as a tabula rasa, letting the mysteries unfold before my eyes. I want my first thoughts on the context to happen when the writers intend, not when some self-loathing fanboy is getting his jollies. People who post spoilers hate themselves and want to ruin any happiness that others may find in our work-a-day lives.
Death to spoilers. Long live Lost.
I don't mind them. I read Atonement yet had no problems seeing the film. I knew the ending, but it didn't ruin my enjoyment of the film. It's the same for Lost.
I'd also like to point out that reading the spoiler synopsis is not the same as jumping to the end of a book. It's more like reading the Cliff Notes version of said book.
nikifan815 - How about we quote the entire thing, instead of just quoting things that will support your argument. I used the same source you did, except I didn't just quote one picture of it, I quoted the whole thing.
"It was unfortunate. I think there will always be people who want to turn to the last page of the book, but I feel that those people are almost universally disappointed with what they read there, because if it's cool, they don't understand the context, and if it sucks, they feel like they've saved themselves time. But no one skips to the end of life. You have to live it, and it's just disappointing to me that people don't respect the integrity of the show enough to let it unfold naturally. There is a fine line between intriguing the audience with what's to come and giving them the whole shebang. And I feel the line was crossed with the finale this year, and it's really disappointing. Which is why, if we're going to talk about these things, I would at least like to come to you, because I know you'll handle it responsibly and not cross that line," and added:
"...with regard to season four, Carlton and I are going into complete and utter radio silence. I know a lot of people are going to be frustrated, but I think if things had gone a little differently in terms of the finale getting spoiled, we might have been a little more open to talking about it. But now we're all bitter. No, honestly, the reason for the silence is we don’t want to tell the audience what to think about where the show is going to be next year. The way the finale concluded and what happens next is open to interpretation. I think it had a real imaginative quality to it that hopefully engaged the audience's imagination the way the show did when they first saw the pilot.
And again, people let's stop making this a moral dilemma, it clearly isn't one.
There are bigger things in life.
Alvin... The quote spoke for itself whether I post it or you post it---IT'S THE SAME!
They were BITTER.
They were DISAPPOINTED.
And to reveal this major spoiler was DISRESPECTFUL.
Now you can go plant a tree or recycle and let me get back to the show that brings a little happiness to my world.
brianamolsch, "I understand that releasing a whole synopsis is quite different then a spoiler here and a spoiler there" is exactly correct, without all your change to include "spoiler free people". Not everyone who likes previews, teasers, and tidbits wants to see the whole finale in inferior form. And Dark is not part of the solution in any way; he's feeding the problem by supporting it on his vastly more popular site, as has been pointed out now by several people, to increase his traffic. It's cheap and disgraceful. If Dark was afraid someone would leak it elsewhere, LET THEM! A leak on a minor blog that barely gets any attention is far less damaging than "control" release on a major website for Lost material. Again, it's participating in the problem, allowing those "some idiots" to copy the material and post it without spoiler warnings so people like me and others see it and are spoiled when we don't want to be. Again, you can't 'unsee' something when someone screams "XXX is in the coffin" or "XXX dies in the finale", etc.
docarzt, my respect for you has just climbed even higher. Good job, mate.
Without quoting out-of-context, let him speak for himself:
---
Damon, first, I want you to know that last week, I hated me. I hated people who do what I do, because it honestly broke my heart that the huge "flash forward" twist of the finale was spoiled on a Website. I know you were trying extremely hard to protect that.
It was unfortunate. I think there will always be people who want to turn to the last page of the book, but I feel that those people are almost universally disappointed with what they read there, because if it's cool, they don't understand the context, and if it sucks, they feel like they've saved themselves time. But no one skips to the end of life. You have to live it, and it's just disappointing to me that people don't respect the integrity of the show enough to let it unfold naturally. There is a fine line between intriguing the audience with what's to come and giving them the whole shebang. And I feel the line was crossed with the finale this year, and it's really disappointing. Which is why, if we're going to talk about these things, I would at least like to come to you, because I know you'll handle it responsibly and not cross that line.
How are you dealing with the Spoilergate aftermath?
Well, with regard to season four, Carlton and I are going into complete and utter radio silence. I know a lot of people are going to be frustrated, but I think if things had gone a little differently in terms of the finale getting spoiled, we might have been a little more open to talking about it. But now we're all bitter. [Laughs.] No, honestly, the reason for the silence is we don’t want to tell the audience what to think about where the show is going to be next year. The way the finale concluded and what happens next is open to interpretation. I think it had a real imaginative quality to it that hopefully engaged the audience's imagination the way the show did when they first saw the pilot. '
http://www.eonline.com/print/index.jsp?uuid=9c9aafc1-e118-4d0c-9686-6b982fbd4e87&contentType=watchWithKristin
---
Showing the content of the questions Kristin asked, we see the "just kidding" was referring to the direct comment about being bitter, not "just kidding" about why they entered radio silence. They were pissed, heaps of fans were pissed, and rightly so. Some may not care, but then that only speaks to your particular nature, not to the truth of the matter that it spoils it for the rest of us who do not want to see the finale point-by-point, or have major plot twists screamed out by idiots who read the point-by-point and can't keep their damned "mouths" shut.
I don't understand these weak arguments some people are putting forth.
1) Atonement was always a book before a movie. Comparing a movie adaption of a book is a different thing to spoilers on a TV show.
2) To suggest by reading spoilers you can appreciate the artistry. Thats just patronising. Why not just record the show as you watch it, then watch it again if you want to "appreciate the artistry"
3) Reverse spoilerism? Are you serious? Surely if you want to be spoilt, you could always record it, read the many websites including LP that provide synopsis after airing, and then watch it after reading that?
4)If producers release spoilers its because they want you to know the information in advance, and it is their pregogative to decide what information to release. If a third party spoils something that they didn't want releasing early, you cannot possibly compare it...
5)Reading a spoiler isn't like CliffNotes. Reading a spoiler is like stealing an episode. CliffNotes are released AFTER publication and designed to be used alongside and after studying something... Not before hand.
6) The international viewers argument is mute, as once its aired in the US, its all technically spoilers to everyone apart from the US, and as international viewers, we have to accept that. I can read about an episode 1 hour after its aired in the US, even though it takes 10 days to air here... So whats the advantage in knowing before the US broadcast for international viewers?
Seriously, the logic defending the spoilers is nothing short of flabbergasting, shocking, ignorant and immature. You really can't justify spoilers, unless you are after AdSense cash and cheap website visits.
I enjoy spoilers and think Dark did a nice job on his site of presenting them.
Thousands of people may wish to remain unspoiled, but that's pretty darn near impossible unless you cut off most contact with the outside world. I would think an equal number of people love spoilers and hunt them up quick as they can. I wouldn't claim that makes it right, but I find the level of moral indignation in some of the comments pretty amusing.
I never skip to the end of a book; I would also never think to claim I am a better person because I refrain.
Would you guys leave Dark alone!!!
If you don't like spoilers, DON'T LOOK AT THEM, and don't criticise people who like to look at them!
Dark has given people the option of deciding for themselves whether or not they want to know what happens.
If he didn't do this, they'd be on every chat board and the finale would be ruined for everyone.
The spoilers were released today and I'm praying that its a false synopsis generated by Darlton because it's awful.
Case in point, someone has just vandalized around 30 Lostpeida wiki pages with massive finale spoilers such as the identity of who is in the coffin. Tell me that's right. Great job DarkUFO.
i frequent Andy's site, and personally i think he handles this stuff well. i know i can go there and read more vague spoilers that don't give much away, but the big ones have warnings and what not so i can avoid them.
And the perfect example of the problem. Once the spoiler is posted onto well viewed sites like DarkUFO, idiots march in, trying to ruin it for those who don't want to be spoilt on Lostpedia.
If of course DarkUFO did the right thing and pass all information he has on the source leaker to ABC and Bad Robot, then we could stop these being leaked and therefore stop the whole problem.
Can't see that happening whilst there are AdSense dollars to be earned though.
Why are we so angry? Because those who don't want to be spoilt end up with idiots trying to spoil it for them, and sites like DarkUFO causing the vandalism of other sites, because they are willing to spoil it for everyone.
It's rather ironic that Dark UFO would be so defensive. Santa here at Lostpedia is under no obligation to get your permission before criticizing your choice to release this spoiler. Learn to take responsibility and accept fair criticism for your actions. You certainly showed far less respect to the creators of the show than he showed to you.
To suggest by reading spoilers you can appreciate the artistry. Thats just patronising.
You mind explaining to me how such an explanation is "patronising." I simply offered up my own personal rationale for choosing to read spoilers as they become available. I'm sure it's different for other people, but for me that format is preferable. At no point did I imply that I was somehow better than people who prefer it in other ways. At no point did I imply that I was somehow smarter than those who disagreed with me.
You're the one that's being patronizing, not me. You're the one who's labeling every person who disagrees with you as "ignorant and immature." I have not made any such blanket declarations because to do so would be illogical.
I think this discussion is OK with folks living in the US, Canada, the UK, NZ and so on, but as many posters before have correctly pointed out there are MILLIONS of other people around the world for whom even a site like Lostpedia could be considered a spoiler site.
You can chose not to read the synopsis of an article about a specific episode because you haven't seen it yet, and enjoy the feeling Lost gives to every one of us, constantly thinking you know where the show is heading and then be rocked of the chair by something new showing up.
But then you stumble across an article about something you would consider completely neutral and boom!!, you get spoiled in some way by a revelation that you did not expect.
Personally what I enjoy most about Lost is sitting on the couch and watching it on tele, see this beautiful island and all the characters that we all have come to love and hate, and let the writers do the rest. Let's admit it, Lost is mostly based on good writing, and knowing what is going to happen beforehand is just ruining the best part of the show. I read many spoilers for season 3, including the ending, which has in fact ruined for me what I consider to be the best season of the show so far. So I learned my lesson and I even avoided Lostpedia during Season 4.
But what am to say to sites that post spoilers? (as I pointed out, even Lostpedia could be considered a spoiler site if you live outside the US/CAN)
Just let them do their thing, they are aware of the fact that this ruins the whole spirit of the show, but hey, anyone who wants to read the spoilers, let them do it. They clearly don't know what they're missing by not doing it, don't they??
I think those who like spoilers should be entitled to read them. Of course on the opposite side of the coin, those who hate them are entitled to remain spoiler free.
Spoilers are a fact of life and unfortunately the only way they can go away is to make the show so secretive and have everyone associated with it sign a confidentiality agreement. Even then, spoilers still manage to slip out.
I say that if anyone wants to spoil their "Lost" experience, its their loss. I wouldn't want to spend any time arguing the pros and cons of spoilers with anyone. Its a waste of time.
I have spoiled myself regarding the remaining two parts left this season but out of respect for others, I don't talk or tell them about it unless they specifically ask me to. I also ask them if they are completely sure that they want to know.
There's not much one can do about it so stop losing sleep over something so trivial as a television show.
Wow, I see a lot of judgment happening here. What's the point?
I'm a darkufo reader and poster who regularly reads and visits the spoiler page, mainly because it features interviews and on-set visits, and detailed breakdowns of previews and sneak peeks. The items I go there for are teasers, not spoilers. They keep me addicted to Lost and I think that sort of engagement is the kind of thing the creators and producers of Lost appreciate, in general: their show engages their viewers like few others do.
That said, I attempt to stay away from major spoilers after last year's ff fiasco. Myself, I only indulge in detailed spoilers involving one particular character that I over-identify with emotionally (is THAT pathetic? I don't know or care--the character reminds me of my dad, who passed away last year, and if I'm projecting, so be it!). Not knowing what happens next creates anxiety, and resolving the anxiety through being spoiled doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the show, because it's the actual writing and performances that I love...knowing the bare facts doesn't take away from that, barring a huge, game-changing twist. THOSE are the spoilers I don't want to know about. It's my choice, and Dark this year is doing a great job hiding these to keep those of us unspoiled who wish to remain so.
The fact is, LostFan108 puts this stuff out there for reasons I cannot begin to discern, and I appreciate Dark's efforts to release them in a responsible way. I don't fault Dark, at least not this year. I think last year was a live-and-learn scenario for many of these site-owners.
As for WHY people like to be spoiled... I can't begin to speak for all the geeks out there, but I think that spoilers, rather than deflating anticipation, create more anticipation among those whose main reason for loving Lost is less akin to the pleasure one gets from reading a good book, and more to do with the pleasure one gets from picking over the details of a really multi-layered, obscure book with other like-minded people. It's more about the experience of being a watcher of the show than it is about watching the show. If you get my drift. It's just a different kind of enjoyment. I'm not one to judge...
That said, people who post spoilers maliciously in order to mess with people who don't want to be spoiled...now THOSE folks, I feel free to judge!
I dont care whether people read the spoilers or that DarkUFO provides them.. it's the point that people that read them go on tirades on many Lost forums and post them everywhere.
Looks like I'm staying away from any Lost related sites until the finale airs next Thursday.
Yay for Andy/DarkUfo bashing?
LostFan108 was going to post the spoilers, whether Andy decided to post them on his Blog or not. So...he decides to post it in the most responsible manner as is possible, and gets crapped on by 1/2 of the Lost community for it. If there's anyone to be upset with, it's entirely (IMO) LostFan for putting Andy in this position to begin with.
Here's a quick and dirty exercise: read the spoilers for "There's No Place Like Home Part 1" and imagine that you've read them without seeing the episode. I know it's hard, but try to pretend.
It is an unexciting let-down. Watching the episode, however, doesn't prove to be nearly as disappointing in my opinion.
Reading the big reveal will most certainly rob you of the dramatic experience - not because of what you know, but because you will no longer be susceptible to getting your leg pulled by the show as the writers have designed.
DarkUFO did nothing wrong by posting the spoilers, and did all kinds of things correctly this time around. What many forget is that he seems to have no problem spoiling the show for himself in favor of you guys - and that's a pretty lonely place to be.
I found this video of DarkUFO from way back in 1980 long before Lost. He hasn't changed much.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=neuMyI8M5fc
I find it interesting that people on here say it's just a show, yet are online commenting about the merits of spoilers. Seems kind of contradictory in my opinion. I myself am against reading spoilers. Coming from someone who got the third season finale spoiled for him its no fun at all. DarkUFO should be ashamed to post these spoilers online. I find all of his statements contradictory. First off he tries to say that online is a free place, yet then he says that he is being badgered by Lostfan to put this material up or else. Not that free I suppose. He also says that 20,000 people voted in favour of the spoilers. How many people watch Lost? More then 10 million? That seems like a pretty small percentage. Lets not even mention that what lostfan108 is doing is illegal. Were he ever exposed he would more then likely loose his job and never work in hollywood again at the very least. I do not fault the people reading spoilers only those who supply them and go against the wishes of the show they claim to love.
As bad as I hate to get into this I will. It kills me that Dark is being tore apart over choice. You have a choice to read or not to read. Fairly simple. But further Mr. plkrtn or what ever it is, you state that if we don't enjoy it in the way you see fit, we are lazy, weak, and other remarks you made. Who in the hell made you the author of the Idiots guide to understanding art. There are several ways to enjoy it. We don't all have sex the same way...we have our favorites , but we all get there in the end. If I enjoy spoilers and still watch the show and itunes and dvd, Damon and Carlton don't really give a rat's ass. The whole 9 mos. silence was for us to figure out Season 3. They laughed at the bitter part. You plkrtn are not the LOST authority It is a community strong based by different types who can either watch spoilers or not. In the end we all love the show. So pull the head outt your ass, take a big breath...and don't push the "Are you sure button". Dark Rules...wonderful thing he is doing for breast cancer. Chin Up Dark...We from Bama love ya!
"You have a choice to read or not to read. Fairly simple."
Yeah, it is fairly simple.
If you live in Idealville.
Now, I have great respect for Andy's dedication to the show and his site, and I don't give a damn if you want to spoil the series for yourself. I may feel -- and I'm clearly wrong -- that there's no real, defendable, point to reading spoilers, except for impatience. But fine, as long as you -- and everyone else -- keep it at spoiling the series for yourselves.
Problem is, we now have a fair amount of people who don't -- who are already busy vandalizing lostpedia, IMDb, wikipedia and anywhere else that allows them to scream, with the sole purpose of ruining it for those who do not want to be spoiled.
Do the rest of us have a choice? Yeah, we have a choice to stay off the internet entirely, avoid reading the newspaper or watching TV, and being careful what people we talk to. Isolating ourselves for a couple of weeks. I don't bother, because it's just a TV show. I'll probably end up regretting it.
All this, because Andy decided to "care" for his spoiler-fans. Some of which -- judging from the comments here -- have apparently started to feel that it's their God-granted right to know what happens before it does. Thank God Andy and Lostfan108 are there to give.
Except... Publishing spoilers isn't "giving" anything. The time issue aside, spoilers are not a positive. Publishing them doesn't add a thing (that wouldn't be added in less than two weeks anyway), it's only subtracting something which you can't bring back. Oh, wait, I forgot, it does add something. Visitors to DarkUFO.
The difference between caring for the non-spoiler fans and caring for the rest, is that the former has no negative impact on anyone. If you really feel that you have to know what happens to "appreciate the artistic nuances", record the show and watch it again -- or record it, read a synopsis, then watch it.
Fairly simple.
If you don't live in Impatientville.
Andy had a choice too, and I can't really blame him for the choice he made -- it's the choice most publishers would have made.
But to justify it with "it would be posted elsewhere" just doesn't cut it. Guess what? It's already posted elsewhere, and no one is surprised.
Back in the late 80s/early 90s, MTV used to have some environmental spots, which always ended with the tagline "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem". I know Andy is old enough to remember those.
"The whole 9 mos. silence was for us to figure out Season 3."
May be. You don't know. I don't know. Since Kristen's interview isn't available as audio, we can't hear the tone of voice throughout, and Lindelof uses a lot of sarcasm, so it's up to interpretation.
But from the context, it seems like he felt it was unfortunate, he was disappointed, he felt lack of respect towards the integrity of the series, that a line was crossed, and that the spoiler posters were irresponsible. Noone was laughing about any of that.
And anyone who does any creative work of their own can imagine exactly how Damon and Carlton feel about it. Yes, they give a "rat's ass" about how people view their series, just as an honest musician cares whether you listen to their live show on a good CD player, or from a mobile recording on YouTube.
Because an honest artist -- whether a penniless painter or an artist in something as commercial as US television -- mostly wants his audience to experience his art as close to the way he envisioned it as possible.
And as far as I'm aware, the vision of the script for "There's No Place Like Home" wasn't to adapt it into a synopsis posted on a website.
Does this impact the show itself? It might, in many subtle ways that we'll probably never know (but might notice in the end result).
Once again, I don't blame Andy/DarkUFO for deciding to post this (even if I can't agree with his official reasoning). The only person who can really be blamed is Lost"fan"108.
As far as I know, the Lost cast and crew actually don't sign any agreement of confidentiality. It's an unwritten rule that you just keep your mouth shut. Which, in my eyes, makes it all the more low and downright despicable for Lostfan108 to release it.
cmulky, I will repeat what I said.
If you want to be spoilt about the content of the episode before you watch it in order to appreciate the art, why don't you wait until after it is aired and read one of the many accurate synopsis that will appear on the web, instead of putting fuel on the fire when it comes to leaks and spoilers? Why can't you wait? Why are you so impatient to find something out?
The fact is last year Lostpedia is being bombarded by malicious users posting spoilers for the Season 3 finale... and who posted them? DarkUFO. After the outcry from the fan community at large, and the creators of the show about people posting the spoilers, the same site has done it again, under the auspices of "If I don't do it, someone else will" which is a laughable excuse. Oh, and guess whats happened too... Oh yes, spoilers have been posted all over Lostpedia multiple times, and guess the source of those...
If you like spoilers, that is all well and good, however the vast majority don't. There are plenty of things that people like to do, but they too are anti-social and should be frowned upon. Spoiling the finale to me, is like a child throwing rocks at cars. They enjoy it, they don't understand why, and they don't care if it ruins the enjoyment for the vast majority.
The reasons given for publishing this information, which essentially is "He's holding the fans to ransom and I'm falling on the sword to stop that from happening" are weak excuses to me, and make me feel that the release is more malevolent than benevolent.
There is just absolutely no valid reason to spoil the finale episode outright like this, again... after everything that was said because of the last season's finale being spoiled. It creates so much more work for all of the fan community, and lots of work for those hard working Lostpedia users who are now having to fight off malicious idiots.
Those that think they have some kind of right to these spoilers are maliciously ruining the shows finale for the vast majority who do not want to know until they have seen it.
lynchmob... I'm afraid it is patronising. If you can't understand why that is, then thats fair enough.
I just don't understand why the small minority wants to ruin the fun of surprise for the vast majority...
Carlos, Lostpedia could be considered a spoiler site if you live outside the US and Canada... but as the show is an American production, we stick to releasing information on the site after the US airings, and make a very clear statement about that on the front page of the site. If you don't get to see the show till after it has aired in the US, then unfortunately theres little LP can do to help (trust us, we've tried several ideas).
The only page on Lostpedia where spoiler content is allowed is the revelant Season X/Spoilers page and this is only allowed to facilitate those who can't resist themselves. There will be talks again in the summer over whether we continue this, with so many big spoilers coming in the last two seasons.
"Vader is Luke's Father!"
What??? O My! I can't beleave!!! I want to die!! lol
I know a lot of people who like spoilers. I hate spoilers, but I respect who like.
It's ok to post some spoilers, but only in restricted area, and a LOT of warnings, for anyone who enter in the site know that there has a spoiler, so he can avoid them.
But... spoiler about the 3 last episodes? NO! 2 weeks waiting doesn't kill anybody. Even to one ho got the spoiler, he should keep it closed for a while.
"It's the question that drive us, Neo!"
Dark, I totally support you! I appreciate the work you do to please the fans. I've never been into spoilers, but I respect the people who do enjoy them. And besides, the worst thing that can come from a Lost spoiler is that it ruins a single episode. It's not as though a TV spoiler will ruin the entire show, unlike movie spoilers.
lynchmob... I'm afraid it is patronising. If you can't understand why that is, then thats fair enough.
Translation: "Since I'm unable to back up my own opinion, I'm just going to state it as fact while branding the person I'm responding to, who did back up his opinion with an actual argument, as some unenlightened peon not worth talking to."
I just lost all respect for that guy
These people are leeches, not fans, if they would risk spoiling Lost for viewers again. Its one thing to post mild spoiler..but to actually ruin a finale is wicked
I really hate the people who leak spoilers because ultimately it ruins it for everyone. Last year the producers went into radio silence all because some jerk was too impatient to wait until the finale was shown. The only solice I can get from this is that the person who leaked these spoilers and the people who read them are ruining it for themselves. I know nothing about next weeks episode. I don't even know which character it will focus on and I don't even know if there will be a flashback or flashforward. I haven't seen the previews for next weeks episode either. I am flying in the dark and the second the episode airs, it's gonna be one wild ride of unexpected twists while the idiots who spoilered it for themselves will be thinking, I wonder when X character is going to do this. Finally I hope the person leaking this stuff is eventually caught and convicted by ABC. I hope he spends a good amount of time in jail rotting and also ruins his career in the entertaining industry.
I really resent the implication that spoiler readers are not "real" LOST fans.
What makes a LOST fan? I use to read spoilers (I stopped at the request of my roommate as he could figure out what would happen based on my expressions when we watched the show) at the beginig of this season. I still watch promos, sneak peaks and other ABC released material, but none of the "extra" stuff. I really find no less enjoyment when I read the spoilers than when I don't. I do experience the show differently but since when is different synonymous with "bad"? I don't understand how people can't understand that I can exprience the show in a different but equally enjoyable way when spoiled. Answers are not what is most important to me. There is more to the show, I think. Even if I read spoilers and find out that Ethan is an other, that's only a fraction of what I tune in every week to see.
When you read spoilers there is a different sort of satisfaction, because no matter how much you read nothing compaires to actually seeing it. There's always a "wow that scene was more amazing than I thought it could be" moment. Also, being a bit ahead of the game allows you to watch the episode with a more critical eye, gaining more from each look, each line that is said. I must admit, I do enjoy trying to figure out what is going on, and spoilers certainly aided me in picking up on things during the first viewing.
But seriously as far as not being a "real" LOST fan. I have seen every episode (This is a VERY VERY VERY conservative estimate as the amount of rewatching I do is really difficult to calculate hard numbers) [i]at least[/i] 30 times. Clearly I must be a fan of the show, don't you agree?
In fact, I was completedly spoiled for seasons 1 and 2 and the first 6 of season 3 when I started watching it on DVD and it still became my favorite show.
In addition to watching [i]at least[/i] 1-4 episodes a night, I also own and play on a weekly basis (or more) the LOST board game and Via Domus. I bought the LOST puzzles, heck I even have a lotto ticket I bought with using the numbers hanging on the wall in my living room. And oh yeah, I run a LOST RPG website.
You're right, I'm not at all a fan of the show. . .
Seriously, why can't people accept that like most things in life everyone experiences the show differently? In my opinion people who think the show is all about suspense and anticipation don't get it. To me LOST is NOT about the core mysteries, it's so much more. "Mystery Frickin' Island" serves as a literary device, it's practically a frame story, it brings us the journies of the characters using this crazy island as the vehicle for character development. I watch LOST for the writing, the direction, the character developement, the acting, the direction, the cinemotography, the score, heck "answers" is at the very bottom of a long list of reasons why I'm a LOST fan. Sometimes I think I appreciate the show on a deeper level than the "thrill seeking" fans who are in it for the surprises and rush when things are reveled.
Think of it this way, I would never vote Republican, can't understand why people do, but I would NEVER tell someone how they should vote. It's their decision, and I respect the choice that they make. You really can't opporate on the belief that just because you don't like it no one should, and get along in this world. That's what most people call being intolerant.
As for Dark. Seriously? You're going to fault the guy for providing a service some people obviously enjoy, and managing to turn a profit at the same time? If you were a vegetarian and would you fault Emeral for making money off of restaurants that serve meat? Just because YOU don't like something doesn't mean no one else should. Life would be boring if everyone thought and experienced things the same way, don't you agree?
I agree, it sucks that the spoilers were leaked to people who didn't want to be spoiled, but the spoilers were already out there, whether Dark posted them or someone else, it was going to happen. Why fault a guy for doing something he enjoys, that some people really appreciate and he profits from? Granted, he's from the UK, but where I come from we call that "good business sense".
And quite frankly griping about "Oh Dark makes money off of it", is ridiculous. Do you think the LOST writers don't? You know the major reason why they don't want the spoilers to get out? Because it might hurt ratings. I really think TPTB couldn't give a rat's patootie how Joe Schmo fan finds out what happens, as long as he still tunes in from 10-11pm faithfully. Sure ideally they would like everyone to experience the show as they intended but that's most likley secondary to ensuring our butts are on the couch for that hour every week.
Not to mention you're basically arguing for censorship on the internet. There is TONS of information far more harmful floating around on the internet than the secrets of some freakin' TV show. Get over it!
You don't want to be spoiled, don't read spoilers. Don't fault people for doing things different than you, that's just plane silly. It's not like we're eating babies or raping old women for cripe's sake.
I can respect that people choose not to read spoilers, why can't you respect my choice as well?
Saying spoiler readers aren't "real" fans makes as much sense as saying people who like the Yankees don't like baseball, because I hate the Yankees and can't fathom why anyone would cheer for the evil empire.
In the end, spoilers and spoiler readers are here and they aren't gonig anywhere. It's a TV show, you watch it your way, let the rest of us watch it ours.
Imagine your surfing the web and you find pictures of your partner in bed with your best friend, how would you feel...
Hey it's only a spoiler you'll get over it, your relationship won't change things will just carry on as normal.
Everybody loves a spoiler don't they??????
I still haven't gotten over having the finale spoiled for me by vandals here on Lostpedia a couple of days ago.
"If only i hadn't logged in that day" or "i hope what i read isn't true" keeps playing over and over in my mind. I know people will be saying "it's just a TV show, get over it". Well i've been looking forward to this for an entire year and to have it ruined like that in a couple of seconds so close to the air date left me really upset and angry.
Forget all the other arguments, there are a people who go out there and post spoilers PURPOSEFULLY for their own twisted enjoyment on various Lost sites and boards. I don't think they realise how much it upsets other people or they just don't care but there is no disputing the fact that they do it and there are a lot of them as it happens for almost every episode on every Lost site, often on unrelated boards too.
Andy needs to stand up and take responsibility for this because at the moment i've really come to hate him on a personal level. I know i shouldn't but i can't help it. Lost is a once in a lifetime experience and to have it ruined almost every week by one mans greed upsets me a great deal.
Lynchmob... It is patronising the producers of the show to suggest that the art of the show cannot be seen due to the revelations and secrets. Its patronising to other fans to suggest that we need these spoilers in order to have a greater appreciation of what we are viewing.
and to Pseudonym... As fans, the vast majority do not want to be spoiled, and as a fan community we have to try our best to not spoil it.
DarkUFO's decision has meant that we at Lostpedia have had to lock the website from new users to avoid malicious people editing LP and putting the spoilers on there.
If you want to be left alone to read the spoilers thats fine, but unfortunately those who don't want to read them aren't being left alone by those who have read them, and its meant we've had to take previously unneeded actions to protect the users, and Lostpedia from the malicious few.
So, why can't you spoil yourself after it has aired, and watch it after the air date, than spoil yourself before hand? Why spoil it for the majority because those who want to read spoilers are so selfish they won't let people watch it unsoiled?
Re: Feldkercher
That did happen to me and that's a ridiculously bad analogy. How did I feel? GLAD I FOUND OUT WHEN I DID! Do you really think anyone would rather be ignorent to the fact they're being deceived by some one they trust, rather than learn the truth so they can leave the jackass? That analogy only makes sense if you're arguing for spoilers. It might hurt but you're better off knowing than not. Also I think you're over dramatizing just a tad. . .
I cannot believe most of the comments I have read, esp. if you feel that people should have free will.
If you don't like spoilers, don't read them. My God, are you just soo mad that someone knows about something before you? That is so lame.
Instead of acting like fascists, just do what you do and lets others do what they do. Don't pay attention if you don't like them.
You only come upon spoilers if you look for them. They aren't going to suddenly pop up in your face. (Usually.) They're out there and if you want to read them, find them. If you don't, don't go looking. Now, if somebody forces spoilers on you, i.e. you are happily floating along in an irc chat that forbids spoilers and some jerk suddenly posts them, that person becomes your instant enemy. As in anything else, 1) it's a free country and 2) there are laws to follow.
I can't believe this "discussion" is still going.
"OMG, they had to lock down Lostpedia - oh, the humanity!" Please, dude. Get over yourself, ploinkerton. You don't speak for the producers any more than I do. And, by the way, they have repeatedly said that all the ancillary stuff, be it podcasts, ARGs or spoiler-controversies; none of it matters in the long run, because ultimately the show will be enjoyed in 6 DVD box sets.
I guarantee the producers are less upset and obsessed with lostfan108 than you are.
And if you can't avoid seeing spoilers; it's time to step away from the computer and get a job or a life or both.
I’m pretty geeky for LOST. I have been to DarkUFO, Lostpedia and lost.cubit.net multiple times over the last few days. I have caught up on all my LOST magazines and listened to the latest Jay & Jack podcast. I re-watched "?" the other day. LOST takes up a good percentage of my leisure time, yet the spoiler has not affected me or my enjoyment of LOST in the slightest. I am completely confident that I will make it to next Thursday without seeing anything spoilerish - unless I CHOSE to. My choice.
Here's a phrase for you to repeat to yourself as a meditative mantra when your eye starts to twitch and your hands begin to shake while you fixate on lostfan108: "What you resist, persists."
Get over it.
I'd much rather live in a world where I'm able to decide what I read rather than have it decided for me by some Internet Standards and Ethics Board...
I know of no "rogue" spoiler where people were unwillingly told how their favorite show ends. The people who post them usually go through great lengths to keep them hidden until the reader has agreed that this is what they want to read.
So who cares?
This whole thing is actually pretty funny.
First I hate spoilers and I never read them and guess how many times I have accidentally read a spoiler, 0, thats right never it is pretty easy to do, just do not go to places where spoilers are, I know, ground breaking technique huh?
What really gets to me here is the seeming moral outrage about spoilers, this is a tv show people, and there are very real problems in the world that actually deserve attention and outrage. There are wars and food shortages, people losing their homes do to a terrible economy people sick and starving living on the streets and you choose to put your energy into fighting lost spoilers? You choose to boycott a website that contributes a portion of its revenue to breast cancer? All I can say to that is wow, I think you all need to get a little perspective. If you want to fight to censor information on the internet at least fight to censor something that can do some REAL harm like instructions on how to build bombs or something to that effect.
I have never really been to DarkUFO's site (that whole not going to where spoilers are thing I talked about earlier) but, out of principal, I am going to give his site 10 hits a day from now on for each person that says they are boycotting his site.
If you don't like spoilers do not read them and they wont effect you.
I wonder how many of the people here that are so concerned with disrespecting he writers have Mp3 or AVI files on their computers for songs and movies hey have not paid for.
In the end no I don't like spoilers but everyone who watches the show should be free to enjoy it as they see fit and no amount of the self righteous preaching that fills this blog changes that fact.
Okay, I've read all of the comments, & I am spoiler free by choice. I am not the morality police, so I don't feel I'm qualified to impose ethics on others. BUT...for all of the talk of, "well, if you hate spoilers, don't read them", "there are tags everywhere that identify that there WILL be spoilers", I was spoiled by the season finale last year and it wasn't posted as a spoiler at all. It was just posted, the day the finale was to air, one hour before. Not by Lostfan108, but by someone who copied, pasted, & posted it. And it freaking sucked because I wasn't given the choice. As mentioned in an earlier comment, the spoiler on Dark's site will be posted as frames, which of course can be transcribed, and subsequently posted somewhere else. The issue with me isn't that I 'm anti spoiler for everyone so that I don't get spoiled, it is that people post irresponsibly. That spoiler last year was all over the place. All it took was one site to post it, and it spread like wildfire. It was even posted as a theory on a forum of a website I frequent. So, yeah, I agree it's eff'ed up to post it anywhere, because if you frequent the internet..you're likely to see it, as I and many others did accidentally last year. Who is this Lostfan108 freak anyway?
As someone not from the US of A, I don't see how the release of spoilers are different from Lostpedia's detailed synopsis after its US airing.
Also, I don't think it was mentioned but I thought it was an AICN thread where Lostfan108 revealed the season 3 spoilers which then spread like wildfire. DarkUFO then picked it up to try to control the spread.
I think the twists are still a surprise no matter if you read them, see them, hear them or think them up in your own head!
I like to read spoilers, personally I can't wait for the show to air. I have to wait extra time, being in Britain, we're over a week behind and although it doesn't seem much, it is. We haven't even had Part 1 yet (although I've done some sneaky streaming and dowloading.)
It's difficult to have to rely on the internet to watch the episodes though, it doesn't always work. Also, I love knowing what happens and sitting stewing with the knowledge. The wait to actually see it happen is exquisite. I don't mind spoilers, they keep my addiction up!
It sucks for the writers, but spoilers are bound to leak out one way or another. If you don't want them to, you can't trust anyone. It's as simple as that. I do read them when they come out, and no, it doesn't ruin the episode for me. I'm often still as shocked as when I read it, when I actually see it. Seeing and reading are very different things.
Re: Pseydonym's comment on the other blog posting.
"No, you're absolutely wrong here. DarkUFO did not vandalize the wikki, some jackass did. His decision did not cause that. He did not put a gun to someone's head and say "Go forth and spoil the world, muwhahahahahahahah!""
No but isn't that the reasoning for him posting it? I'm pretty sure the "I'm taking the bullet" reasoning was given. DarkUFO was threatened with the ultimatum of it being posted all over the internet if he didn't post it. So he did, therefore giving the ammunition for these people to post this information onto LP...
"You're removing personal responsibility and placing all the blame on Dark. That's like saying gun suppliers are responsible for all gun related deaths. Once the "product" (in this case spoilers) has been "purchased" (or in this case, read) by the "consumer" (or in this case, the site users) DarkUFO is not liable for anything they do with it."
Well if they didn't sell the gun, people couldn't shoot people with it could they? Don't use guns as an example. Use drugs. Do you arrest the people who buy it to stop the spread, or the dealers?
Guns are a bad example. You seem to sing from the "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" hymn sheet, but I'm pretty sure someone has to load the gun in order for it to be fired.
"I use to read spoilers, I didn't spoil other people. You cannot blame Dark for other people being morons. And if you're going to do that, why not go a step up and blame LostFan soley?? Since without him Dark couldn't have spoiled anything. Since LF would have released the spoilers regardless, then you can remove the blame from Dark and place it all on him, the originator of the spoilers."
I see. So you are removing any personal responsibility from Dark, cause after all, he had to make the concious decision to post the information, but then suggest everyone else should have some responsibility? You can't straddle both sides of the argument, cause someone will come along and kick you in the balls...
It is Lostfan108's fault for giving DarkUFO the information, but then I would think after the furore of last year's leak he'd think twice about releasing this again.
"You people are utterly ridiculous. It's a TELEVISION show not a religion. Get a life! I mean I have LOST related tattoos and I don't think I even begin to reach the level of ridiculous reverence for the show that some people on here have. "
Well seeing as you are insistant on continuing this debate, I would ask the pot to stop calling the kettle black.
"What, do you think TPTB are reading these comments saying to themselves "You tell them Pltkn! Thank you for being our knight in shinning armor!" They're not. They don't care. You know why? Because JJ and Darlton aren't starving artists. This is their job, they get up, go to work, provide a service, and go home. They might be disappointed about this, but I'm sure the copious amount of revenue the show generates for them more than makes up for that."
So its a financial and class thing for you? I'm pretty sure those guys are passionate about the fans and their reaction, and they would want to see Lost fan sites acting responsibly. They've given us a lot of lee-way with their copyrighted content, and we should respect that. They don't pee on our bonfire, and we don't pee on theirs... Except Dark, whose not only peed on their bonfire, but crapped on their hard work.
I'm pretty sure Leonardo Da Vinci made a lot of money from his many works, it doesn't give anyone the right to squat over one and plant a turd on it.
"At the end of the day, you're arguing to censor the internet, remove freedom of speech, freedom of choice and personal responsibility. Do you think that would make the world a better place? Shit happens, learn to deal with it. It's just TV."
No what I've asked DarkUFO to do personally, is not to publish it for the good of the fan community, and to report any information he has on Lostfan108 to ABC and Bad Robot Productions in order to nail who the person who leaked it, and who has reneged on their non-disclosure agreement. You sign an agreement like that, then you are contractually bound to limit your free speech, which I hasten to add is entirely legal.
As a fan I have a respect for the work that goes into the show, from the guy who takes the dailies from Hawaii to LA every day, up to JJ, Carlton and Damon. Regardless of the fruitless arguments of how much money they earn from the show.
Unfortunately, some people don't seem to have any respect for the work done by the crew and cast because of some resentment of earnings it seems.
Its far more than Carlton and Damon here, its hundreds of people who you are suggesting are paid enough to have their work ruined.
DarkUFO's argument was that because LostFan108 had threatened what he did, he had to place the spoiler on his site "for the sake of the community".
Surely that is Dark absolving himself of any personal responsibility over a TV show he loves so much, he's willing to ride rough shot all over it in order to get people visiting the site?
Re: Plktn sorry I posted in the wrong blog, apparently, I'm posting from work and have to do so in short quick bursts as this is not exactly what is considered "appropriate use" of my work computer and didn't realize I had clicked the wrong "post comment" link. I apologize for my mistake.
Now, on with this:
Drugs is a bad example because drugs are illegal. The dealer gets arrested because selling the drugs is a crime in itself. Guns work as an example because it is not a crime to sell guns. If drugs were legal, people would not arrest the dealers for someone getting high and causing an accident. Otherwise we'd arrest liquor store owners whenever there was a drunk driving accident.
Here's a better example, if I sell spray paint to an 18 year old, and he paints town hall, I don't get arrested, he does. Drugs will never work as an example because the act of selling them is a crime. At the most what Dark has done is a civil matter, and if the writers are all that upset with him, they can take him to court over it.
I am saying you don't blame Dark because what he is doing isn't illegal, he runs a website, he supplies a product to people who want it. You can't fault him for that. I bet LP spoils tons of people from nonUS countries every day, but apparently that's ok because LP posts spoiler warnings. Guess what, so does Dark! DarkUFO is a SPOILER SITE, he posts spoilers, that's what he does. Gun dealers sell guns, gas attendants sell gas, DARK DEALS IN SPOILERS. It's like blaming a duck for quacking, that's what ducks do. You don't like it, don't go near the ducks!
You may not like what he does, but he has EVERY RIGHT to do it. Unless ABC/TPTB decided to seek legal action against him, and win the claim, then you cannot tell him what he should or should not post. When ABC asked that it be removed, he listened and removed the spoilers. ABC dealt with it, they don't need you to continue on their behalf.
And, once again, you can't blame him for what people do with the information. Do you hate Harry at AICN for what happened last year? Do you hate everyone at spoilerfix.com? You're being utterly ridiculous and the more you argue your points, the more ridiculous you appear. Singling out Dark for the improper use of spoilers outside of his site is stupid, because if it wasn't him, it'd be someone else. You'll never get everyone to stop posting spoilers or reading spoilers, you're just stirring up controversy perhaps in an attempt to increase traffic to YOUR site. Hmmm. . .how about that. This blog has way more comments than any other blog entry I've read, by like. . .100. Looks like the "controversy" is generating a lot of traffic for the LP blog. . .
Not to mention, the proceeds from the major spoilers were donated to BREAST CANCER RESEARCH. So much for the claim that he's just trying to "make a quick buck". Did you even attempt to get a balanced view of the situation before you started accusing him of being a money grubbing slave to the almighty dollar?
If you want to blame someone, do it on an individual basis. Blame the people who use spoilers irresponsibly and leave the ones who do it in a responsible manner (Such as Dark) alone! He posted them, in a way that no one who didn't want to see them ON HIS SITE wouldn't be able to accidentally view them. He also did it in a format that made it very difficult for others to cut and paste elsewhere.
Once someone takes that information and puts it on another site, it is OUT OF HIS CONTROL. I mean should he shut down altogether because it's possible that any spoiler he posts from any episodes could end up being used by someone else to do harm?
As for why I'm continuing this debate, it's because some of the things posted here were personally insulting. And because I think it's unfair that you get to run about bashing people for really no good reason other than your own personal views and vendettas.
People on here have implied that they are some how morally superior to their fellow fans because they don't read spoilers. You know, KittyLili is a big spoiler fan, and she is also a huge part of LP and pretty much queen of the forum. To imply that people like her are a determent to the show or "part of the problem" is absurd. She, like others, puts a lot of time and effort into Lostpedia, but apparently this pales in comparison to her horrible actions as a dirty spoiler reader. . .(Hopefully she doesn't mind me using her as an example as she is the most prominent spoiler reader I know of on here).
To imply that people like KL are not as big a fan as people like you, is just plain wrong, insulting, and spits in the face of everything she has contributed to this site.
Spoilers happen, do you really have to go out of your way to say negative things about Andy, who has always been a big supporter of LP and I thought a friend to most of us on this site. He does not deserve this type of treatment, and if you really have that big an issue with him, rather than insulting him in a public blog where tons of people can read your posts and get a skewed version of what happened, why not contact him personally and discuss it with him like an adult, as he requested?
You say you "asked" him. No, you called him out. Asking him would have been giving him a heads up on the issue, and then asking if you can discuss a way to reach a mutual agreement. If one could not be reached, post the blog but include his side of the story. Otherwise you just become disreputable. Since when did the LP blog start operating on the "National Inquirer" rule of reporting?
You could have warned people about the spoilers getting out without making a point to blame Dark for everything. You have an issue with how he does business? Be a man and talk to him in private, don't air your grievances for tons of people to see, without providing his side of the story. That's the cowards way of dealing with things.
As for my "class issues" (LOL). It's not a financial class thing for me, it's just that it's uncalled for to imply you're morally superior to some of your fellow LPers and LOST fans for the sake of defending people who have the ability to higher lawyers and take care of it themselves. They don't need your help, they're not "the little guy", you're really just being a jerk to people because of how they choose to enjoy the show. Last time I checked ABC hadn't retained you as counsel in this matter.
BTW, comparing LOST to anything Di Vinci did is absurd, LOST is an amazing show, perhaps the best, but it's no Mona Lisa. And to say that Dark provided a service that makes at least 20,000 LOST fans happy and from their perspective enhances their enjoyment of the show is "craping on the writers bonfire" is idiotic. I doubt the writers loose much sleep over this, so why are you so heated?
I just think you should act civil (and if people had, I would have to but a lot of you deserve to get as good as you've been giving to your fellow fans), state that you don't like spoilers, and leave it at that, without the moral judgments. If if I was a religious person I'd say "let he without sin be the first to throw stones", and probably follow that up with "thou shalt not judge, lest you be judged".
People should be free to do whatever they want and no matter how much you bitch about this it won't change a damn thing. You're just doing this because you're upset with Dark and want everyone else to jump on your bandwagon rather than deal with it in a respectful and civil manner.
Saying "what I've asked DarkUFO to do is not publish for the good of the fan community" is still asking him to censor his website, no matter how you slice it. You can find out how to make bombs on the internet, watch child pornography, buy prescription drugs without a script and this is the cause you choose to champion?
"For the good of the fans", I'm sorry but when did we make you the leader of us? I don't remember voting. Not all people who are spoilerfree even agree with you, as evidenced by posts on this blog, so to imply that you have the right to speak for all of them is quite amazing. You're unhappy with what's going on, that's fine, you want to bitch about it, you're going about it in what I think is a poor fashion, but that's also fine.
You have the freedom to voice your concerns, to say whatever you want on the matter (as do I), but if you enjoy your ability to do this kind of thing, then you better not try to limit anyone else's ability to say/post what they want as well. Hate spoilers all you want, but don't think just because you don't like something means it doesn't have a right to exist.
As Voltaire said, "I may not like what you have to say, but I will defend your right to say it to the death". You can say you hate spoilers, you can post all the biased and insulting comments on the matter that you wish (though don't be surprised when you get similar replies), but once you request that someone else stop posting what they want, you've crossed a line.
No matter how you try to spin it, you're arguing to remove freedom of speech and freedom of information from the internet. It's all or nothing, and you're on the wrong side.
If you want to argue about what should be removed from the web for "the good" of others, why don't you visit godhatesfags.com, or one of the many KKK websites, or some child porno site and fight with them? At least then people will understand the righteous indignation you're spewing. If disgusting and reprehensible sites like that can post what they want, then Dark should be allowed to post whatever he wants. If Dark decided he wanted to post "LOST IS A PILE OF BILE AND THE WRITERS WEAR DIAPERS AND EAT SHIT FOR FUN" I would be upset and hate it, but I would acknowledge his right to do so.
As for my respect of the show, I have plenty of respect. I enjoy the show for more than the "twists" that keep most viewers tunning in every week. I recognize that it is not just the "most suspenseful" show on TV, but the best written, best directed, best acted, best scored show out there, possibly ever. I tune in for more than what spoilers supply me with, I respect all aspects of the show. Do not question my respect and/or love of LOST.
However, I don't pretend that it's not a business and that people do not profit from it. The point about the earnings is that they are more than capable of defending themselves. If they choose not to, then how about YOU respect that? It's not like they can't go after Dark if they so choose. Why are you going off on him in their name? Do you really think that the writers want to be attached with all the things you (going with the generic you for all those that have posted similar things) are saying? Do you think they want to have their name associated with blanket insults towards fans of the show? Do you really think that this is the way they would like to see this handled? I can't imagine the writers every daring to make the claim that spoiler readers aren't "real fans", or that they would not appreciate the fandom from spoiler readers as much as they do from their other fans.
Just as you don't speak for all LOST fans, you definately don't speak for those who work on the show either! If this is how they wanted to see it handled, they'd be on the internet ranting and raving in posts about it themselves. They are more than able to deal with the issue, they don't need reinforcements from the fanboy crowd. Dark, on the other hand, is the little guy in this situation. He's one person who has provided a great resource for LOST fans and has been repaid by having hoards of nerds coming out of the woodwork to bash him.
At the end of the day, the writers/producers/workers on the show did their job, they got paid and they go home. That is the point I was making. Saying that "their work" has been "ruined" is blowing things completely out of proportion. Ruined would mean people stop watching, the show gets dropped and canceled and they're all out of a job. Do you some how love the show less if you've been spoiled? Is you respect of the show so incredibly subjective that 3rd party actions can cause you to dislike it? If it doesn't taint your love or respect for the show, then in no way has it "ruined" it either.
Basically, 10 years from now, new viewers of the show will watch it in DVD form with the internet full of every little detail, they won't view it "as intended" either. Does that mean once an episode has aired it has been "ruined" for any potential new fans because spoilers are now available?
LP has detailed episode info prior to it airing in other countries. Does that mean that LP is "ruining" the show abroad? I saw it said that LP is a spoiler site for international users, so it's not the same. UM, hello? DarkUFO is a spoiler site too, everyone knows that. He divides the spoilers into a special section away from the main page, just as LP does. There is no difference here. If you don't want to get spoiled, you don't go. And if some ass wants to go out of his way to spoil you, then take it up with him!
And if you're all so upset over this, then why praytell, do you provide links to the spoilers on Dark's site in the spoiler section of the forum? Explain to me how that's any better than what Dark did? The spoilers are available right here on LP. In fact they're being discussed in the spoiler forum as we speak, even though Dark has since removed the spoilers from his site. And if you want to claim "well if we didn't contain them to the spoiler forum they'd get out all over the site", UM, I think that would be Dark's argument for why he also chose to post them.
If you want to talk about pots and kettles you might want to check out yourself first.
I just think you need an attitude adjustment. I know it must be hard to see my side from way up high on that pedestal of yours, but you might want to consider it. Heck, the fact that other "spoiler free" users disagree with you speaks volumes in and of itself.
Reply if you want, I've wasted far too much time talking to a brick wall. I'm not sure why I bothered, I've said my piece, your mind won't be changed, you'll continue to bully and look down upon spoiler readers as if they're some how "lesser" than the "real" fans of the show. But hopefully other people will read this and have a more open mind, and will understand that all fans of the show deserve the same amount of respect, regardless of how they choose to enjoy it, or show their appreciation for it, be it posting blogs online, or making a website dedicated to all the latest LOST news, spoilers and gossip.
We're all LOST fans, we all enjoy it in our own way. It sucks that one person had to go and vandalize the wikki and ruin it for some people, but don't you dare try to imply that the actions of one person in a group proves that all members of that group are the same way. Or that some how, one jerks actions invalidate our right to enjoy the show as we see fit.
"I am completely confident that I will make it to next Thursday without seeing anything spoilerish - unless I CHOSE to."
That's the way I felt...until early this week, when I stumbled across spoilers somewhere I thought was safe, but some jerk spammed them all over the place with no warning in an effort to spoil as many people as possible.
Hopefully you won't be spoiled. But I'd be a LOT more careful if you really want to avoid getting spoiled.
Anyone who says that spoilers are no big deal because you can choose not to read them has no clue. You have your head in the sand.
In a perfect world, spoilers would only be posted with warnings, so people would have the CHOICE to read them or not. I would have no objection to spoilers. But we are in the real world, and cretins post them all over, they get enjoyment in ruining it for other people.
Personally, I'd love to see ABC look into their legal options against people who leak things like this. Free speech has nothing to do with it, free speech doesn't protect distributing someone else's copyrighted material. Even if they can't block the spoilers (and I think maybe they could, considering entire episode descriptions are being posted), I'd love to see them take action against leaking sites and make them take down screenshots and clips and whatever else the law permits. These guys are scumbags, and I'd love to see them suffer the consequences of their actions.
This year's finale has probably been ruined for me, and if the things I read turn out to be true, I will be extremely pissed.
"Anyone who says that spoilers are no big deal because you can choose not to read them has no clue. You have your head in the sand."
Says you. I'm still spoiler-free. I still believe I'll make it OK, but thanks for your concern.
BTW, where did you get spoiled? You should warn others since it was normally 'safe' place.
If you don't want to know DON'T READ IT. It says in BIG BOLD letters that it is a spoiler. Like anything else in life you have a choice.
Drugs is the perfect example, because those who know anything about the finale are under a non-disclosure agreement. This is a breaking of a contract which has been put in place.
He runs a website, turning around on a low cost for profit margin on other peoples copyright.
LP might spoil people outside the US, but Lost has already been broadcast in the United States of America and Canada when the information is placed on the site. All content has been place in a public domain. Its impossible to compare spoiling something that hasn't been aired, to something that has been aired in its country of production. Don't be so glib.
No in fact, I don't think Dark does have the right to do it, as the information that has been recieved is protected under the non-discolsure agreement, and is frowned upon by the creators of the show. Sure his legal recourse against himself is minimal, or nothing but just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. If you wish to show a complete lack of respect to the creators, cast, crew and fans of the show, then thats his pregogative.
I didn't tell anyone. You are placing that onus on my opinion. Anything I say isn't on anyones behalf but my own and is my own opinion. If you don't like my opinion, thats your pregogative.
I can blame him for what people do with the information. If he doesn't publish it, The information doesn't get used in the way it had been on LP. Is that so hard to understand.
For your information, I have no respect for spoilerfix.com and Harry Knowles.
The only ridiculous thing here is that my opinion rubs you up the wrong way, you have to spend so much time on something that is "just a TV show"
If it wasn't him, it would be somebody else is a ridiculous argument that has no conclusion. Apply it to other situations and its farcical.
"If I didn't sleep with your wife, someone else would". Once again, just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should.
I'm not stirring up controversy here, and this isn't my site. I volunteer my free time to this.
If you think this is a record for blog comments, I'm afraid you don't read many logs.
It was good to see some kind of moral judgement by DarkUFO in the donation of advert money to charity, however, I would point out that this was announced quite a while after comments here about traffic increasing. Without this blog post, would a donation have been paid like that? I don't remember one last year.
Dark did do it in an irresponsible manner. He spend several days plugging the fact that he had the spoilers, even posting a poll called "Who is in the coffin?" and removing options every few days... That, on the front page was spoiler enough.
I have every right to post a viewpoint. You are the free speech advocate, do you seek to deny mine?
I at no point have implied a morally superior attitude to anyone who reads spoilers. I have stated that I dislike using spoilers as a sole reason to run a site, making a lot of money from hosting the rumours on free hosting websites.
I don't remember Andy contacting ABC, Bad Robot et al about the spoilers he posted, so why do the same ask before post rules apply to him? I didn't post the original article by the way.
I'm afraid yes, I do blame DarkUFO for the spoiler getting out, and of consequence, the damage caused to this site. I don't believe making money from other peoples work in the way that Andy has (regardless of any post-calling out charity donations) is a good way to do things. I didn't post the original article once again, so I have no comment to make on whether he had a right to reply, other than the lack of a right to reply in regards to his spoiler posts to ABC, Bad Robot et al.
Fans don't have lawyers. Fans don't have a say when it comes to being spoilt, once someone has posted them on the web. If DarkUFO posts them originally and "exclusively" and yes I quote that word, then I have to blame the source.
I compare Lost and Da Vinci as art. I could subsitute any show, and any artist, and the relevance of my argument remains the same. I am heated because I don't want to be spoilt, and I don't want DarkUFO's suggestions for posting it, which are frankly, weak being accepted as valid reasoning for someone aiding and abetting people ruining the way I enjoy the show.
I'm not arguing for censorship of the internet, I'm arguing for a bit of respect being shown to something that money is being made from without any right to make money. I don't make money. The running costs of Lostpedia far outway the income. A lack of censorship does not mean anarchy.
Don't quote Voltaire out of context either. How dare you use that for your argument, considering the suggestions you have made that I shouldn't be able to have my own opinion. That quote has nothing to do with being able to appropriate content, and everything to do with opinion, something that you seem to think I'm not allowed to express...
Just to quote you here, just to show how your argument is glib.
"Don't argue... that some how, one jerks actions invalidate our right to enjoy the show as we see fit."
Well guess what? One jerk's actions has done exactly that. By providing the information in the first place, it got posted on LP, and I hold Dark responsible for that.
You don't like that? Tough.
dlittle19 said...
If you don't want to know DON'T READ IT. It says in BIG BOLD letters that it is a spoiler. Like anything else in life you have a choice"
Have you read this at all? Maybe on a perfect internet that would be the case, but a perfect internet it is not. It has probably occurred to all of the people who don't want to be spoiled, to not click on a known spoiler link...ummm, that's not exactly rocket science. The thing is, people spam the spoilers all over the internet. They AREN'T spoiler fonted, they AREN'T posted with "warning spoiler" headlines. They just show up. Hey man, we all have a choice, whether it's to skip to the end of the book or not. But, when somebody posts the ending, and you had CHOSEN not to find out how it ends, well, there's really no choice in that is there? What do you do then? Choose to squeeze your eyes shut and hope you didn't read too much? It's not like last year Lostfan108's spoiler was always posted with big headlines HEY I KNOW HOW IT ALL ENDS!!! Usually, the big reveal was just sort of lying there in someones commentary, put in the subject line like "Hey, if this is a FF, then like why is it only Jack and Kate who get off the island?" Moderators do remove them, but hey, someones gonna read them before they do, and thus they're disseminated again. It seems stupid to be going on and on about this god given right to spoil or be spoiled. The ire is, those who choose not to be spoiled have, because of this character, had their choice removed by being spoiled anyway. Which dude, just kinda sucks.
@ plkrtn
You have repeatedly insulted the character of people who read spoilers in this thread by calling them things like "Weak willed".
You have implied a lack of morality to those who read and publish spoilers by saying things like
"Honor is strongest amongst thieves.", "You really can't justify spoilers, unless you are after AdSense cash and cheap website visits."and "Spoilers are disrespectful to the artists" and than you try to make yourself look better by saying;
"I at no point have implied a morally superior attitude to anyone who reads spoilers"
That is a load of crap as are a number of other things you have said such as "the vast majority of viewers don't like spoilers."
Where is the study you conducted to reach that conclusion? I am expecting that it does not exist and that it is a baseless statement.
Your comparison to drugs is also a failure considering you direct it at Dark. DarkUFO has done nothing against the law and he is in no way under a non disclosure agreement therefore he can not be compared to a drug dealer as you did in your comparison. If you drew that comparison to lostfan108 it would almost hold water but again would fail when you realize that it may have been illegal for lostfan108 to leak the information but it was not illegal for Dark to use it.
Oh and the past tense of spoil is spoiled not "spoilt" and an argument with no consequence is moot not "mute".
As a side note I have given Dark 100 hits since I have found this blog (I had given him probably about 5 ever before this).
This is not taking a gun from someone and showcasing it to limit harm. It's loading a gun and then handing it to children and people with IQs under 70. It was irresponsible, and there is no logical excuse.
"Don't look" is a bit like telling people to avoid the person pissing in their own pool.
This seems a little silly to me. How do spoilers get the information in the first place? They have to get the info from people associated with the program so if you want to point a finger at anyone, point it at the people involved with creating the show. Make them zip their lips and keep their scripts secret. Speaking of secrets, it's not like we're talking about leaking military secrets to our enemies. We're talking about the plot to a tv show. If you don't want to be spoiled stay away from the web.
Seriously, I feel like stooping to the level of all these high and mighty non-spoiler readers and saying, I hope you do get spoiled!
And DocArzt, wow you are an a hole. You don't get a spoiler for your site so you talk down about a competitors site (correction, the guy that runs the site) on a public blog for doing WHAT YOU KNOW YOU WOULD HAVE DONE ALSO.
This is like fighting a crusade in God's name and then expecting him to actually be happy with it. Sure, God may not like the heathens, but where did he ever say kill them?
Now this is just getting stupid.
I hate spoilers and their sources too. From the very beginning lost has been about questions and mystery and the slow revealing of such mysteries is what the show is all about. So if you don't like that, don't watch the show at all, never mind looking at spoilers.
Whats the point of doing it. seriously, why watch the show when you know whats going to happen. im in love with lost, and have been on darkUFO's website the whole year but refuse to read any spoilers. seriosuly, what the fudge is the point???
fair enough if people want to be spoiled thats ok, just recognize the fact that people have had there choice intentionally taken away from them.
its moronic arguing for choice when you disregard everyone else's, by saying "just don't read them" how stupid is that statement? when you have people posting it all over the place, with the intention of ruining it for people that don't want spoiling.
if you want spoilers do it responsibly its that simple, 4 little words spoiled an episode for me, they were not in a spoiler section or covered by a button, they were on a totally unrelated page.
explain how i should of avoided that?.
Where are you people running into spoilers when you dont want to? I'm not calling you out or anything, I just really want to know so I don't accidentally run into a spoiler myself. I have remained spoiler free so far and have every intention of staying that way until the finale airs. I just want to know what type of sites you're talking about here. What sites to void exactly.
I HATE SPOILERS!!! If you read spoilers, youre a jerk not a Fan.
Nice job Dark. Great points made. I love your site.
You did the right thing.
People, if you don't like porn (and who does?) - don't look at it.
Don't try and understand the people who do. The same goes for spoilers.
If you are a true fan, why do you care anyway? Do your own thing, in your own home, and go to Lost sites that do not post spoilers. Just stop whining.
I like to read spoilers every chance I get. I don't have cable, so I watch the episodes a day or two, may even a week, later on the ABC site. I generally read the episode recaps here or on televisionwithoutpity.com before I watch an episode. I actually do this with mostly all the shows I watch online or download from iTunes. For me, it enhances the experience, rather than diminishes. "Lost" is so beautifully shot, and I like trying to guess where the locations are, since it's filmed in my hometown.
I can't believe there are still people saying "don't look". Are you really that out of touch with reality? Again, it's not a case of not going to DarkUFO and looking there, but where idiots that went to DarkUFO are then using that material elsewhere without spoiler tags. It was irresponsible one-upmanship to post the finale synopsis so that those idiots have access and spoil it for those who did not want to be spoiled. Thanks to Dark, I now know who is in the coffin, something I was trying to avoid until actually having it revealed on the show. There's no "don't look" when people are not considerate of others.
Dark, you're a spineless scumbag who only cares about one thing: TRAFFIC. Thanks to your inability to do something honorable, lots of people have had spoilers thrust upon them by vandals.
Once again time has shown that you and your policies are wrong. Not only that, but you are deliberately jeopardizing the excellent relationship Lost fans enjoy with Carton and Damon. Thanks for that.
You're a selfish, shallow scumbag.
Once again for the people at the back: DARKUFO'S SPOILERS HAVE BEEN THRUST UPON THOSE WHO DON'T WISH TO SEE THEM. That's not from choice!
But of course, there's no difference between having spoilers and spoiling something, and NOT having spoilers and NOT being able to spoil something. Yeah, that makes sense.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe you're not the first that Lostfan108 approached? That maybe you're just the first with such low morals that you actually accepted?
Grow a backbone and some moral common sense.
There are few things that annoy me more than spoliers. Some are ok, like the little hints the producers give, but scene by scene synopsis is out of the question. You cannot call yourself a fan of the show if you read those spoilers. There is no debating it: you cannot call yourself a fan.
I honestly hate spoilers. I had season 3 spoiled for me. But, anyone who wants to whine and moan should have stayed away from the spoiler sites. I was able to make it to the finale spoiler free by not looking at any Lost sites the minute I heard that "lostfan108" was posting again. Yes, I agree that "lostfan108" should be prosecuted for copyright infringement by stealing the details of the finale. But once we hear these spoilers are out stay away from the sites for a few weeks. Yes, the curiosity is there but fend it off. Because this finale was truly worth the wait. So next season, hole yourself up in a room with some fish biscuits and some DHARMA rum and wait for the finale and just stay away from the boards.
Hehe, I managed to make it!
To all people worried about Darlton going into radio scilence - I don't get it! I tried listening to their podcast once, but had to turn it off QUICK -- they were giving away too much info, basicly spoilering by themselfs.
To all those "DO NOT LOOK" people - search for a YouTube video "spoiler" (sorry, don't have the link on me), which is basicly 3 people driving a car and SHOUTING "Snapes Kill Dumbledore" to everyone around ..
Don't you guys get it by now, Lostfan108 IS DarkUFO.
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