The penultimate episode of Season 5 can only be described with one word – epic. Starting off from where "The Variable" ended, we see Daniel Faraday shot by his mother, Eloise Hawking. Jack and Kate, attempt to flee the scene but are captured by the Others. Eloise seems eager to learn more about Faraday - and the journal that she gave him (I mean, will give him).Back at the Barracks, Stuart Radzinsky interrogates Jim LaFleur, wanting to know where Kate and the Hostiles are. Just when I thought good ol' Stu had reached his maximum capacity of annoyingness, we see him at his worst. Not only does he undermine Horace's authority, but he also defies Pierre Chang's orders to stop drilling at the Swan! I had always thought of Chang as the head of DHARMA -- it didn't seem right for Radzinsky to be above him in the DHARMA hierarchy.
Back in 2008, Locke returns to his people, the Others, and talks to Richard for the first time in three years (but for Locke, it seems like much less than three years). Locke, Ben, and Richard travel into the jungle to help the 'other Locke'. Richard mends Locke's wound, and sends him off on his mission (a scene from "Because You Left").
Later back at the Others' camp, Locke does something that makes even Richard wary -- he tells the Others that they are all going to go see Jacob. But that isn't the worst part -- as they are going on their pilgrimage, Locke reveals to Ben what his real mission is - to KILL Jacob! This couldn't have been more of a shocking twist in the plot - it was a classic way to end the episode, and leave us craving for the upcoming finale. Also, the look Ben had on his face at the end is the most classic Benface I have ever seen.
One of my favorite scenes in this episode was the long-awaited return of Sayid. Back to 1977 - Erik, Richard, Eloise, Jack, and Kate head towards a waterfall (a secret entrance into the Temple). Just when we thought things couldn't get any better, we see the epic return of Sayid (last seen fleeing from Dharmaville after killing young Ben in "He's Our You"). Jack fills in Sayid on his plan to detonate the bomb - something that Kate doesn't fancy. This brings up another question - why is Jack so adament on detonating the Jughead? Is it really worth erasing their lives? Sure, they have been through a lot of pain like Jack said - but it wasn't all pain and misery, like Kate said. This reminds me of Locke's statement from "The Little Prince" - I needed that pain, to get to where I am now.
Locke shows some audacious leadership in this episode. After three years apart from his people, he makes a shocking return - and he doesn't take some time to relax and drink some Dharma Iced Tea. Locke makes sure his 'advisor' Richard Alpert, as well as Ben, know that he is in charge. He tells the Others that they take orders from someone they have never seen - the ominous, mysterious, and enigmatic Jacob - seen very briefly in "The Man Behind the Curtain" and "The Beginning of the End". But Locke has no intention of letting his people commune with Jacob - he wants to actually kill him. Could this mean that Locke wants to gain absolute leadership of the Others? Locke doesn't seem like someone who wants to take orders from anyone, even if it is someone with special communion with the Island.
One of my favorite character this episode was Pierre Chang. He finally realized that Miles Strame is his son. And Miles sees the real reason why Chang forced Lara and himself to leave the Island - it was to protect them. Chang is definitely my favorite DHARMA member, and I wasn't happy when Mr. Head of Research defied his orders.
One very interesting scene from this episode is Sun's conversation with Richard. According to Richard, he watched Hurley, Jack, and Kate all die thirty years ago in 1977. The first thought that struck me was, could Richard possibly be lying? I have always held on to the hope that our 1977 crew would reunite with the present 2008 group. Could they really have died in 1977? I'm guessing this answer will soon be verifed one way or another come the finale next week.
Overall, I was extremely impressed with this episode. This episode was stellar - and in my opinion, even surpasses last week's milestone 100th episode. We had some new revelations from Richard, a dark descent down the Temple tunnels, Radzinsky torture LaFleur, Chang send his wife and son on the sub, and Locke make a statement that will forever send chills up my spine - "I'm going to kill Jacob."
Oh my gosh I think I have it. You know how Faraday had said "Whatever happened happened?" Well it just hit me reading about Miles seeing his dad make his wife and son leave that whatever happened STILL happened- I think they're still right on track and that the bomb IS the accident that's going to happen! That that's why they're going to have to push the button and stuff.....
ReplyDeletejust a thought.
I know they're supposed to be variables, but I think it's still what happened.
Wow, CTS, amped a bit ? Drinking much Syke-9 ? I felt the opposite on this ep. It was very chess-positioning, putting alot of people in place for the big season finale.
ReplyDeleteAnd the H-bomb is just sitting down there, no explanation how they got the 20-ton bomb down there ("not through the pool"). And the underground area is full of heiroglyphics and associated architecture and they dismissively refer to it as "the tunnels" ?! And all's they did was look at "Jughead", not very impressive to me CTS.
And does it really matter what Locke says ? He's apparently taking on Ben's habit of either outright lying or not revealing everything he knows. He lied to Sun and may be lying to Ben to get him to act in a certain manner. After all, what motivation is there for Locke to kill Jacob ?! WTH did that come from anyway ? Is he going to say because the Island told him to ? What is this, the 2009 version of Flip Wilson's "the Devil made me do it" routine ? C'mon.
In any case, the chess pieces are in place for a whopper of a finale. Let's just hope Carlton and Cuse deliver bigtime heading into the final season.
Since the 1977 is Richard's past in 2008 is has already happened. So nothing can change. I like Jeff and Jen's theory that the real accident is the detonation of the hydrogen bomb... but perhaps that doesn't happen. Also, don't the tunnels look exactly like the ones John took Ben too to see the smoke?
ReplyDeleteAmazing episode..I am still in awe of this one.
ReplyDeleteI still don't think they manage to detonate Jughead. It would totally destroy the Island and everyone with it. Richard is again pointed out as very old and I hardly think it would be in the Hostiles best interest to be vaporized by the H bomb, much less the Island's. That would effectively end the show right now. If they wipe out all of this and land as planned in LA..think of this.
Kate is handcuffed to a Marshall..she sure as heck doesn't want that to happen.
Lock will be back in the wheelchair for life.
Charlie will die an addict.
Claire will give Aaron away.
Jack will never know that Claire is his sister.
Kate will go to prison for murder.
About the only happy ending will be for Sayid..meeting Nadia.
I just can't believe they will manage to blow everything up. I don't care what brain damaged Daniel says. The incident was the discharge of energy.
Oh yeah..what about Penny and Desmond? They may never meet.
Poor Rose will die of cancer.
I want a better ending than this one don't ya'll?
I loved this episode too! I like having doubt about Richard and his motives. Loved Chang asking Hurley about 1977! Love how Locke's new-found confidence irritates Ben. (Could definitely do w/o the love triangle/quadrangle stuff though.)
ReplyDeleteI think Ellie sent Jack & co. back to that specific year in the hopes that they CAN change Daniel's fate. It seems though that everything may be happening just like it happened... still curious why she was suddently so upset when Daniel was playing the piano. Seems she might have been okay w/ that pursuit until that moment. It seems that must have been around 1989, but I can think of nothing that happend in Lost that year.
I don't think Locke believes Jacob exists and he plans to KILL the myth. "What Jacob wants" has always been just a little to convenient for the leaders, hasn't it? It seems that Jacob coincidentally always wants what the person who can speak to him wants... hmmmm...
Good stuff!!
I've felt since last week's episode that "the incident" will actually be caused by the detonation of Jughead. Daniel tells Jin that he has returned because of seeing his friends in the Dharma picture, but later reveals to Miles that he came back because he knows of an accident that will happen and that he is there to stop it from happening which will erase the plane crash. Which of his statements are false?
ReplyDeleteIn the long term, think about what would happen if the plane never crashed. Jack would never have come to terms with his father's death. Kate would be in prison. Hurley would forever be cursed by the numbers. Locke would remain bitter about his entire life. Rose would die, and Bernard would be empty inside, etc, etc, etc. Even those who died on the island such as Boone, Shannon, and Charlie, would land in LA and commence with their unhappy lives.
How all this can happen and everything be reconciled at the end of season 6 is a mystery to me, but I just don't think there is any way that Oceanic 815 does not crash.
Joyce: "Brain damaged Daniel"? Maybe an expectant mother should steer clear of leaking H bombs?? "o)
ReplyDeleteI still can't wait to find out why/how Richard is able to transcend through time without aging.
ReplyDeleteLah, I've always wondered that as well. Could it be that when you are in your incorrect time line, you don't age until you catch back up with where you belong? Could Richard be from the future and have been sent back by the island to its early days to advise the Others/Hostile/indigenous islanders over a long period of time, maybe even their entire history? The longest amount of time we have seen someone live out of their time line has been 3 years so I'm not sure if we have enough evidence yet to turn this theory over YET, although we might get shown the answer soon.
ReplyDeleteThere's no way that they're going to blow the bomb on the island. That would mean that they would spend all next season showing what everyone did after they landed in LA...Who would want to see that? Not me. There would be so many unanswered questions, it would be television suicide for Lost.
ReplyDeleteI'm also convinced that they can't change anything. If they were to change something wouldn't it change the future so that they wouldn't need to go back in time to change anything? I hope that made sense. All this change stuff is just to set up a crashing finale as everyone realizes they can't change anything. I have this theory that Dharma is about to drill into the smoke monster. I might be wrong but i don't think we've seen the smoke monster in the past. Wouldn't that be an awesome semi-orgin to the smoke monster? They drill into where it is being held and then he is unleashed and destroys pretty much everything.
Maybe i'm heartless but i think it would be cool if Jack, Kate, and Hurley died in the past. Just because they die in the past doesn't mean the others from the past don't return to their proper time.
There are two problems I have with the WHH theory:
ReplyDelete1) If it is true, then what is the point of the show? If nothing changes, then we inevitably just end up back at 815 crashing. Yes, the only alternitave we can think of at this point is 815 landing in LA, eliminating all of the redemption and self-actualization the people on the plane went through, but...
2) how do we know that changing the future will only lead to 815's safe arrival in LA? Clearly going back in time didn't affect the memories, age, etc. of the people involved, so maybe even if they change things there is still some way for the current 815'ers, who have already crashed and lived through the consequences of that, to still live out the rest of their lives.
The writers have gone through great lengths to put this idea of changing the past/future into our heads, I have to imagine at that at some point that idea will be realized, and none of us can know the consequences of it right now, so dismissing it as a possibility because the only result would be them arriving at LA is premature.
Oh yeah, and 815 was 2 hours off-course due to a communications loss, and there is no evidence that that had anything to do with the island. Before Desmond crashed the plane by not pushing the button, 815 had already diverted away from its route to LA.
What about Alpert's comment to Ben: "Starting to think John Locke is going to be trouble"
ReplyDeleteThis is interesting in light of the end of Season 3 when Locke briefly "joined" the others. It seemed then that Alpert was serving in some sort of advisory role to the Others and that he was pushing for Locke to replace Ben as the Others' ultimate leader. But this new comment to Ben seems to contradict that idea. It's more than just second thoughts. I think that Alpert and Ben would never truly accept Locke's leadership.
The comment suggests that Richard and Ben have knowledge or goals that have yet to be revealed (to the audience or to Locke). And the comment is not inconsistent with the notion that Locke is somehow being conned or manipulated.
It also really does seem as if the island (or some spiritual force in league with the island) is communicating with Locke and directing his actions.
And we know Ben and Alpert aren't happy with the actions Locke is taking. I think it remains to be seen whether this implies that Ben and Alpert are acting against the best interests of the island (or somehow exploiting the island).
@ Bradley: I have been thinking the same thing about Richard for quite some time - that he is from the future, and can only serve an advisory role to those who are extant on the Island. However, we have seen him seriously surprised by Locke's intentions and actions during this episode, which suggests that he may not know it all after all.
ReplyDeleteI think that the ultimate theme in lost is 'destiny' which, as we have been shown, is simply knowledge of what a person is to do in the future, sometime that cannot be changed, because whatever happened, happened. I do not think that the concept of destiny has a mystical magical essence in the show, but rather a temporal essence. Incidentally, the word 'Dharma' means 'a person's divine purpose/destiny'.
It is very possible that the show will end with the crash of Oceanic 815, but with us the audience having a clear understanding of why that must happen (saving the world perhaps?) rather than just continuing a time loop for no purpose other than to promote the existence of itself.
Anyone has any idea why the hydrogen bomb become so small???
ReplyDeleteI thought it was huge. Did anyone realize it changed size?
I have two theories after this episode: one, that Locke wants to kill Jacob because that is what Jacob wants. Remember how Locke heard him say "Help Me."? I think Jacob wants to die and Locke is doing it. That is what makes the most sense to me. I prefer to think that rather than that Locke is veangeful and power-hungry.
ReplyDeleteThe other theory is that in all of the mess of the incident and the bomb possibly going off, the Losties in 1977 somehow disappear, and Richard thinks that they die in the explosion or something. I am a firm believer that the O6 are going to be able to change SOMETHING, even if they don't change everything. That would be not cool to have the plane crash never happen. But I really think they will change something significant.
"The Jughead"? Really? Jughead is the name of a specific bomb, not the name of a type of bomb. You wouldn't say "the Richard Alpert", would you?
ReplyDeletei noticed the bomb to be smaller too.. maybe it was just the angle.
ReplyDeleteThis was a good episode. i liked how they included 77ers and 08ers in the same ep.im done theorizing tho.. im just gona let the show try and explain. the more i think into it the more confused i get.
also, was anyone else disappointed with the sub scene when it was diving under water?
ReplyDeletei thought the CGI was really cheap looking
I don't get why Richard and the Others were hanging out on a beach. I thought they were supposed to be at the temple all this time?
ReplyDeleteI also thought Daniel told Eloise to bury Jughead in concrete... does leaving it in those tunnels really count as "buried in concrete"?
I'm guessing they probably did the best they could with Jughead and put it underground where they thought it wouldn't be disturbed. Do you really think its likely that the Others keep a big cement mixer lying around?
ReplyDeleteHere are my two bits:
ReplyDelete1. Yes, the scene where the sub went underwater was UNBELIEVABLY fake looking. I was very disappointed with this.
2. The compass paradox is bothering me. The problem I have with it is this: where did the compass come from? Because Richard had it from from 1954 until 2005, when he gave it to Locke to give to Richard in 1954. So what are the origins of the compass? Who's compass is it? This, I think, is the only flaw in the show so far. The compass must have been manufactured at some point, but the way the show used it does not give us any possible source. Can anybody help me out with this?
HeyJude..I agree about that leaking bomb. I noticed that someone had fixed it which means whoever got close enough to seal it probably died of radiation sickness.
ReplyDeletePoor Daniel's brain is fried due to his experimenting on himself. Now I am curious, just when did ole Ellie get preggers and if she already had Dan by '77 who is raising him for her?
I think I am holding out on the Jughead not being detonated because I can't imagine (and i do have a great imagination) the Island allowing itself to be vaporized and poisoned by Jughead forevermore. I mean Richard is probably a living god something and he is blithely taking these folks into the heart of the Island..the temple area. The season finale might be the sight of a mushroom cloud hovering over the ocean (wonder if they will use footage from the Bravo blast)
Am I the only one wondering how in the world they plan on detonating jughead I mean unless Sayid was also a nucler physisist along with expert tortuer the only way I see this playing out is with a string of gunpowder leading away from the bomb a lit match and everyone covering their ears.
ReplyDeleteOnce again I noticed the lack of children among the others. I doubt they keep them hidden. I thought the walk together of the whole group cool. Locke..the moses of the pacific leading his people.
ReplyDeleteNo kids in that walk either..no kids for the others ever in any scene.
Regarding life/death situations, destiny always overcomes human intervention. Des couldn't stop Charlie from dying..so one way or another 815 is going to crash on the Island.
Perhaps Ellie, Charles, Ben know the big things can't change, but maybe they are trying to tweak stuff just enough to break some of the looping and maybe save their children's lives..Dan, Penny, Alex.
I think whatever they did do in 1977 spoiled Ben's aim and ultimately stopped him from killing Penny. And Penny had to find Desmond because he was lost. If the crash hadn't happened they wouldn't have met in the ocean and they wouldn't have Charlie. So perhaps one event can be changed. All this time we are thinking Aaron is the chosen one...perhaps Charlie Hume was the promised child all along.
Ok, my new theory is that Jack is Jacob. He's going to "become" Jacob when he detonates Jughead; the impact will thrust him unstuck in time and create the circle of ash around his cabin.
ReplyDeleteBy killing Jacob, Locke is actually rescuing him from being unstuck in time, thus saving Jack.
My prediction is that in the end, the show will demonstrate conclusively that the future cannot be changed in a meaningful way by intevening in the past.
ReplyDeleteIf you look at three specific episodes when it's been tried you will see what I mean:
1. Desmond's attemts to save Charlie from his fate- failed
2. Michael's multiple suicide attempts after he got off the island- all failed
3. Ben's two failed)attempts to kill Locke
All of these example point to a consistent idea expressed by the show's creators- that you cannot change the future by attemptiong to alter the past-"Whatever happened, happened".
Also- RE "Jeff and Jenn's" comments at beginnng of thread- pushing button in Swan has NOTHNG to do with the H-bomb- the "Incident" (next week's episode) refers to the consequences of the Dharma folks drilling too close to the electromagnetic energy source under the Swan. Remember it was Desmond's activation of the fail safe device after Locke destroyed the computer that prevented another "incident" from occurring by rendering the energy source under the Swan inert (??how).
Great episode last night, but now that we re-witness the bullet removal from Locke's leg, I have an interesting question. I tried to add it to Ethan's page under "unanswered questions" but have no idea how to do that or submit a question. Maybe someone who has access to that page can put this in there.
ReplyDeleteIf Ethan shot John Locke in the leg the day the beechcraft crash landed on the island, why did Ethan not regonize John when they would go hunting together in Season 1? And if he did remember, it seems everyone is saying "then you just disspeared before my eyes"... And because Locke does not see it coming, or even, is surprised by the action when talking to Alpert in the next flash, could reveal that Ethan never had this discussion w/ Locke about shooting him (in Ethan's past. Locke still had yet to experience the action). Is this an innacurracy? Can this be tied up?
Most importantly, wouldnt Ethan want to know where Locke went after he flashed and dissapeared?
ReplyDeleteAwesome episode, much better than Variable IMHO. Don't know what to think about Locke "killing Jacob"... what a shocker, no one was expecting that! One great thing about this show they always have good plot twists.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts on Jacob are that he for some reason is a prisoner in the cabin. What else could explain "help me" Locke heard from Jacob when they first met? The powder around his cabin is acting as a spiritual barrier to keep him contained in the cabin. Who? How? Why? ... Guess we'll see soon enough. Can't wait for the finale.
To back up my question regarding Ethan's memory:
ReplyDelete1954: Ellie takes Faraday to the bomb. He says he's from the future, then dissears before her eyes.
1977: Ellie tells Jack and kate about Faraday dissapearing.
1988: Rousseau has Jin at gunpoint. Jin dissapears.
later in 1988: Jin sees Rousseau shoot Robert. Then Rousseau turns gun on Jin explaining, he is sick too. He just dissapeared before her eyes.
2001: Ethan shoots Locke. He is face to face with him when Locke dissapears.
2004: Ethan says nothing to Locke regading this dissapearing Houdini act.
the journal...
ReplyDeleteIn 'the variable' episode it was implied in the end that Eloise already knew that she had to send his son back to the island to die before she actually sent him.She 'sacrificed' her son for the sake of the island.
But what about the journal..?She has a journal which is written upon before Daniel is even born.
She doesn't give the same journal to Daniel when he's young...does she?
MY BRAIN HURTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteTHIS IS THE GREATEST FRIGGIN SHOW EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think its Jacob VS the Island...
the island wanted Locke to turn the wheel and leave the island.. instead ben left the island..
BEN WAS NEVER BANISHED... does anybody not notice that???
he is meant to stay on the island....
WHY??? hmmmmmm
Does anyone else think that the leaking H bomb under the Dharma housing may have been the catalyst for the pregnancy problems that the Others had been experiencing, for which Juliet was recruited? Just an idea...any thoughts?
ReplyDelete" Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else think that the leaking H bomb under the Dharma housing may have been the catalyst for the pregnancy problems that the Others had been experiencing, for which Juliet was recruited? Just an idea...any thoughts?"
I would think that if radiation effects were to blame, there would be other physical effects of radiation sickness (like losing hair, bleeding etc) that would have affected both men and women. It would also not explain why the women all lost their pregnancies around the same time ( as expressed by Juliet) or died in childbirth.
My thoughts are: Daniel didn't go back to just be killed. In some weird way I think maybe him (and other dead people) ARE Jacob - wholly crud! Locke is going to kill Jacob because this will in essence free him/them and set things right. The irony is that Jack is going to detonate a bomb in tandem 30 years earlier. The two events are going to utterly screw up the universe, and next year they start showing season 1 again as season 6, only everyone has deja vu, not just Desmond.
ReplyDelete1) the incident will have something to do with the hatch, and that will send them back to 2008 - right after richard said "I watched them die". he will be surprised that they didn't die.
ReplyDelete2) There are two distinct identities - Jacob (the island?) and the smoke monstor. Will season 6 be the battle between the two of them? Locke on one side? Richard on the other?
3) I say most things can't be changed, but maybe minor things can be tweaked.
i thought jacob was christian (jack's dad)...maybe i had it wrong all along!
ReplyDeleteOK, the writers has made a BIG mistake in this episode, if I understand it right. It's about the compass. Richard and Locke just can't pass the same old compass over and over in the loop. Yes, it is one compass, but when it completes one "circle of exchange", it will not travel in time again. Therefore, Richard always gives Locke a new compass, and Locke always gives Richard the compass that Richard gave him in the future. But from what I understood from the episode, it is implied that Locke said to Richard to give his past self that same old compass (but I'm not completely sure), which is definitely impossible.
ReplyDeleteOMG, these things are so hard to explain...
And by the way, will you people finally learn that "whatever happened, happened" means that EVERYTHING that happened happened EXACTLY as it happened? There just can't be any changes to the timeline, no matter how slight they are, because if you watch an event happen, and then someone other watches that same event happen, but from a different angle, you will always watch that same event and there will be no "changes" other than in people's faulty memory. By the way, have you heard about the butterfly effect (not the film)?
Its pretty clear, this is going to be "The Empire Strikes Back" season with season ending to match.
ReplyDeleteOn the plot, there is also the possibility we are only aware of the two timelines. There may be more.
There are SEVERAL time travel movie and novels, let alone the Dark Tower finale, (spoilers) where the characters have gone through multiple times. Yet the story we watched was only one layer.
Where is Desmond in all this? He is the only constant right? Its pretty clear, while the 1977 timeline is probably unchangeable, the 2007 outcome may be. Hawking did say, she had no idea what was going to happen. How do we know the 2007 timeline isn't just another past? DId Richard really see them die, or just disappear? Is he just saying what he is "supposed" to say just as everybody else is doing what they are "supposed" to do for the known outcome?
I just think the next season will have a new motif for the story. The producers have become pretty good at setting the audience up for certain expectations and then reversing them. Also, I think the time travel stuff is wearing thin and is rife for plot holes the deeper they go.
Good episode, but it was mostly a setup and exposition link. There wasn't much individual story, just small bites.
"I'm going to kill Jacob."
ReplyDeletemeaning...Locke is going to kill the myth of Jacob.
This is why he had all the Others follow him. He wants them to see for themselves that they were following a false God.
That's right...I'm NotLost.
quick question can anybody answer then if there is an accident on the island and the dahrma ppl die, how is bens dad still alive later when ben kill the rest of the dahrma? does anybody know?
ReplyDeleteLots of great comments above on a great episode. Just two opposing thoughts on the same point: IF the hydrogen bomb's detonation is the actual "incident", then how does Dr Chang leave the instructional video regarding that issue? Wouldn't he along with everyone else be vaporized, since the island isn't that big? Also, I never understood just how mechanism consisting of a series of numbers entered into a computer nullified this great magnetic pulse. Further, since there was a fail safe switch, why not just use it once and forget about punching the keys anymore //// My other personality says that if detonating the hydrogen bomb is the actual "incident", then the fact that the CIA spook who convinced Desmond to stay in the hatch because of "pollutants" and who was wearing the HASMAT-type garb outside when he found Desmond makes sense. I realize later on, the garb was a hoax, but something had to persuade him to wear it initially. Thanks for letting me share. I LOVE LOST!
ReplyDeletei think Richard Alpert is the man behind the curtain after all..
ReplyDeleteSmoke Monster Origin?
ReplyDeleteJust an idea: Dharmaville becomes Otherton somehow, meaning the H-Bomb under the barracks does not actually destroy the barracks. Why? Does the bomb not go off? If it does, what if they are deep enough under the ground, with enough stone/concrete or whatever the tunnels are made of, to sustain the blast, thus piling up massive amounts of radiation in the tunnels, thus forming the smoke monster. After all, in all flashes, the earliest we have seen the smoke monster is 1988, AFTER 1977. Just an idea.
to cheesepuff: The "incident" takes place before the "purge." The incident is not when all of the Dharma people die, rather, the reason they have to push a button every 108 minutes in the Swan Station. The actual incident when the Dharma folk get wiped out does not happen until 1992 (see The Man Behind the Curtain) when they release the gas in the Tempest station. What is actually interesting, is when Sawyer, Hurley, etc. find the Dharma van with 'Roger's' corpse, his nametag is on a Dharma jumpsuit bearing the Swan Station logo. I wonder if he had to push the button at one time too?
ReplyDeleteI don't think the writers would make it so that the plane crash never happened. But I don't think it's because they "can't change the past." I think Desmond kind of proved that. I feel like the series will end with the destruction of the island, to be honest.
ReplyDeleteBut hey, isn't Eloise a total beezy or what?
I also feel like Jacob and The Island are two totally separate entities.
ReplyDeleteOne thing about time travel. Time travel in essence should involve also SPACE travel. Our location on earth is not an absolute reference. The earth is rotating around its axis and around the sun; the sun is rotating around the center of the galaxy, the galaxy is... and so on. Sending someone back in time a few hours would result in that someone appearing in the middle of empty space unless space travel was involved too...
ReplyDeleteJust a thought.
Desmond Hume's time traveling experience of flashing between 1996 and 2004 is a bit confusing. After all, I am no physisist. However, he needed to find his "constant" so his conscience would know what time he is in. With that in mind, perhaps the flashback/flashfowards are a clue to our time traveling questions.
ReplyDeleteWe have seen two different ways a time traveler travels. The first, we see the island move. An example of this is when Jin is at the wall of the temple with Rousseau. The flash occurs and it is Rousseau that dissapears. Now, Rousseau remained in that time zone, and watched Jin dissapear. It is not the island moving but the people's conscience moving thru time.
With that, I am starting to think that each "Centric" episode is to make us now wonder if that persons conscience is being transported back in time, or in the case of a flashfoward, foward in time and no one is actually "leaving" the island.
Thus, no one person's conscience is at a certain time on or off the island as anyone else. Everyone is experiencing their life at a different time than everyone else. And the idea of all of Lost is to get everyone's conscience on the same song of the record spinning on the turntable.
This makes no sense because i am not a physisist, so if anyone understand this and can clear it up better... thanks.
How can you possibly be confused by why Jack wants to follow Faraday's plan so bad?
ReplyDeleteEvery person who has died since he was thrust into the tenuous position as leader of the Losties weighs on his soul. It's the same reason he spiraled out of control when they got off the island...because at the end of the day he couldn't get everyone off the island.
Go back and re-watch some of those episodes leading up to the explosion of the freighter. This is a man who time and time again repeated the mantra, I WILL get everyone off the island. He believed it in spite of Charlie's warning. He believed it in spite of everything...and he failed.
This is a chance not just to get the survivors off the island, but for him to erase his every mistake as leader of these people. All the lives he feels responsible for losing. All the people he feels he failed.
This is his redemption.
This episode was soooo good! I can only imagine how the finale will turn out to be..I honestly dont even know what to expect and I want know what or who is in the darn box!
ReplyDeleteAl Trautwig thinks its Widmore! haha
check it out:
Al Trautwig Theories
I have two different theories on Jacob:
ReplyDelete1 - Jacob is made up. Maybe first by Richard who controls everyone simply by saying "jacob said..." yada yada yada. And maybe Jacob first conned Ben into believing in Jacob and then controlled Ben that way. And maybe now Ben is also aware that he doesn't exist and they are trying to rope Lock in by decieving him next. I too thought that Lock might have meant he is going to kill the myth of Jacob - expose it all as a quack.
2 - But then again I like how someone else mentioned that maybe Lock is supposed to kill Jacob to rescue him - maybe jacob is in some sort of state of pergatory (sp?)
*On a side note, I think this episode revealed that Richard is not as all-knowing as many of us thought - he seems to know nothing about time travel, etc. in 1977, but he still appeared ageless in the 50s so like most of us I am really curious as to why he doesn't age - maybe his is just another dead representative for jacob - much like christian shepard is now.
What if Jacob is there against the island's will? The Island obviously wants Locke to be it's leader. It's saved his life more than once, it even brought him BACK to life! It told Ben to follow Locke's every order, no matter what.
ReplyDeleteIf Locke says the island told him to destroy Jacob, then that is probably what it wants to happen. What if Jacob is some sort of imposter/parasite existing against the will of the Island itself?
I was called a "Locke Apologist" by my friend when I proposed this theory, lol. I really do think though that Locke has the island's best interests in mind. The Island is obviously guiding him, not Jacob.
To Anonymous' post about "time travel and space travel":
ReplyDeleteMovement is relative. You can say something moves only if you reference it to something else. For example, now I'm not moving in reference to the chair I sit on, but I move VERY fast in reference to Sun or Mars. Therefore you can't say where exactly would you appear in the past after a time travel, but I can't really say where would you appear and how would it work.
Some thoughts:
ReplyDelete(1) Jacob:
Sam, I also feel that Jacob could very well be some kind of demonic parasite that the Island wants to destroy. The white ash could be Jacob's own version of the Dharma "sonar fence" that keeps the smoke monster out of his safety zone. The Island could be using Locke to penetrate into the circle of white ash, because the smoke monster cannot do so.
Locke's body is embalmed - the Island or something else has clearly commandeered him (but as indicated by the smoke monster's statement to Ben in the form of Alex, Locke still seems to be vulnerable). Maybe Locke's newly found purpose is to "course correct" the Island's plight from Jacob's spell/powers.
(2) Richard Alpert:
It could be that Alpert is being kept alive by Jacob, in order to ensure that everyone stays in-line with Jacob's desires. But I did find it very interesting that Alpert quickly and purposefully stood in front of Eloise when Sayid had a gun pointed at her back in 1977. It could be that Alpert was just being a gentleman. But, his "adviser" role definitely limits some of the things he can do - but he somehow circumvents those restrictions by pulling certain strings to make sure the status quo remains intact.
If Alpert is dead and being kept alive, that may explain why he cannot be a leader of the living. Locke's leadership role would not necessarily contradict this, because Locke has not really "lead" the Others - he actually seems to be democratizing the group and letting them make up their own minds. The only time I felt Alpert was truly disturbed was when he found out Locke had died.
Just some thoughts - if I am wrong - I am WAY wrong. Can't wait for next week's episode. What an amazing show.
I feel I can reconcile the problem of traveling through time and the need to work out the complicated movements in space also.
ReplyDeleteImagine a stick-o-rock you can buy at the seaside. It's long, and has 'Brighton Seaside' or whatever written on the end. If you take a bite, (it tases good) it still says 'Brighton Seaside'.
You can imagine the stick-o-rock to represent an object in time, e.g. the Island. Each slice through the stick-o-rock represents a different period of time. If you wre to cut it sideways however, you would see long continuous coloured lines that make up the letters, just like an object such as the Island would be continuous in time.
To time travel you simply need to follow these continuous lines to stay in the same place.
However, a standard stick-o-rock represents an object that doesn't move in space. Now if you were to make one that was all twisty and spiraly, this would represent an object that does move in space as well as time. If you were to follow the path of the letters in the stick-o-rock 'through time' you would see that you are also moving 'through space'
Now, how do you follow these lines through time to stay in the right place? well we know large objects like the Earth make gravity wells in space, so these gravity wells through time would act like train tracks. simply follow the tracks for as long as you want to get to the right moment in time!
I just thought about something. What if Jacob really is just a myth? And he is a myth that was created by Locke when he visited Richard Alpert in 1954. If you remember, Richard never mentions Jacob at all when Locke and company are in 1954. However he is mentioned by the Dharma era "Hostiles."
ReplyDeleteWe have already seen Locke create the legend that he is "special" and the reason that he has to leave the island and die in order to bring everyone back. It is perfectly logical that he created the legend of Jacob following this same vein.
Hey, has anyone else noticed that everyone from the science team on the freighter has parents who lived on the island? Man Widmore sure knows how to pick 'em, and I'm positive that it was intentional.
ReplyDeleteLance please say you're joking that you think you've spotted something no one else has :|OF COURSE IT'S FRICKIN' INTENTIONAL
ReplyDeleteAlso someone said something about Jacob being a myth Locke created back in the 50s? Well this wouldn't fit with how when Locke said 'Jacob sent me', Alpert decided to listen to him and talk to him. If Jacob was not even known back then, then Alpert would have simply gone 'who's Jacob?'..
ReplyDeleteIf I am wrong someone tell me, I'm just finding the episode to confirm..
Yeh mentioning Jacob to Richard makes him intruiged about Locke
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't they take Daniel to the temple and heal him like they did with Ben?
ReplyDeleteI think perhaps the Losties time-shifted at the time of the incident and Richard believes they were incinerated or they must change things to avoid the fate Richard saw. Also I can't believe that, although John Locke no longer worries about Ben, he would honor him with the truth at will and may very well be giving Ben misinformation about his intention to kill Jacob.
ReplyDeleteI'm new to this so pardon if I don't do right. As the last episode was ending I had a funny thought... What if (should be the motto of Lost) when Locke and his posse got to Jacob he turned out to be "The Professor" (who did all kinds of super stuff with coconuts) and they were told they were on Gilligans Island this whole time. ...Now on to my real theory: The Island is The Biblical Garden of Eden, Richard is the Gate Guarding Angel, Smoke monster is his sword (weapon) to defend & protect the Island from expelled mankind, Ben is the agent of Satan, Locke is the current trusted member of Man to bring them back in line with the Will of The Creator, The others are members of the Biblical fallen Angels, Jacob is The unseen embodiment of the God Spirit able to create at will ... Y'all see where this is going. Take it from here...
ReplyDelete