Comments on Lostpedia Blog: 5x16 "The Incident, Parts 1 & 2" review

My thoughts All the "touches" the 8 chosen chara...

2009-07-13T13:53:02.690-07:00

My thoughts

All the "touches" the 8 chosen characters received were from Jacob. However, since Smokey/Esau/Dark Shirt can assume the role of a dead person, and since Jacob was killed in the past, the modern Jacob is actually the Dark Shirt. His loophole is in fact bringing the present-day characters back in time to fulfill the entire Lost series.

Also, someone made a key theory: Juliet did not activate the bomb, and the white light did not mean that the bomb was detonated. The bomb was kept, however, until Desmond used the fail-safe (the bomb)

These are obviously theories, so don't get too off on a trail, which is what the creators want everyone to do.

Mmm... Juliet detonating bomb = Desmond activating...

2009-07-01T08:24:49.751-07:00

Mmm... Juliet detonating bomb = Desmond activating failsafe key = Juliet running naked around the jungle? Can't wait to see that!

Has no one yet caught what the Submarine captain s...

2009-06-03T21:01:48.193-07:00

Has no one yet caught what the Submarine captain says right before Sawyer, Juliet, and Kate hijack it? He says, "Locking on to the Parcher Bearing." Could that be the same bearing that took Faraday a while to discover?

OK, a couple of points. I had seen these two thing...

2009-06-02T14:22:18.516-07:00

OK, a couple of points. I had seen these two things come up and felt that they should be taken note of;

1) DHARMA does not necessarily have any ties to Buddhism/Hinduism. It is an acronym for "Department of Heuristics and Research on Material Applications".

2) The statue has been confirmed by ABC/Darlton as being that of Tawaret. As much as you all want to think it's Sobek, here's something that might help you get over it... It's not your show, yo. If you were one of the writers/producers, then I'm sure your ability in searching Wikipedia would be welcomed. But the simple fact is that even in Egypt, their pantheon of deities were constantly being revised and modified. Sobek might have appeared one specific way in Cairo, and another way 30 miles away. Look at all the variation on Christianity in modern day, and all the different interpretations there are. It's asinine and arrogant to assume that all who were part of the ancient Egyptian beliefs all subscribed to the exact same LITERAL conceptions of what the gods looked like or represented.

I don't mean to make this sound like a rant, but seriously-- lay off the Tawaret/Sobek argument already. The show has confirmed it. End of discussion.

Besides, how can we know if the statue on the island was there before or after Egyptian culture as we know it?

Finally i think we have 2 solution: 1) Jacob is A...

2009-05-21T01:49:42.856-07:00

Finally i think we have 2 solution:

1) Jacob is Aaron

2) Jacob is an E.T. (remember the "touch" in Locke's neck after the palace crash in the last episode?)

All the rest is only author's fantasy, it's more simple than we can suppose in my opinion...

The guy in the cabin was never Jacob simply becaus...

2009-05-19T07:15:00.000-07:00

The guy in the cabin was never Jacob simply because when Richard was asked to take them to Jacob by Locke, he went straight to the statue. I kept thinking they were going to go to the cabin. So when Richard went to Jacob to get notes and messages for the leaders of the Others he must have only always went to the statue to retrieve them. This debunks the theory that the anti-Jacob could have been giving Ben bad things to do through Richard. Richard has never said or implied that Jacob was ever anywhere but the Statue at any time in the past.

Hello... First off, I have to say how impressed I...

2009-05-19T07:14:00.000-07:00

Hello...

First off, I have to say how impressed I am with this blog and the whole site. It's answered a lot of questions for me. Even having watched every episode of Lost - I'm still baffled but completely addicted.

Anyways...a couple of thoughts about the flight numbers. Taking 'Flight' as a reference to running away from something I've substituted the word 'Exodus'.

Exodus 8:15 reads:
But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said.

Exodus 3:16 reads:
"Go, assemble the elders of Israel and say to them, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob—appeared to me and said: I have watched over you and have seen what has been done to you in Egypt.

You'll notice that both of these contain a reference to either Aaron or Jacob, leading me to thinking that both of these characters are a little more importance than we might think.

I'm also interested in the idea of Jacob bringing Locke back to life. If we're getting biblical, or at least referencing to it, this is almost a prophecy. Jacob saved the one who would eventually be responsible for his death. Some parallels to Judas 'betraying' Jesus because he knew his death would have to happen for the 'prophecy' to be fulfilled.

I also loved the idea of Desmond and Penny's baby Charlie growing up to be the drug addled rocker we know and love...but, hey...it's Lost...stranger things have happened!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Essay_Concerning_H...

2009-05-19T07:09:00.000-07:00

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Essay_Concerning_Human_Understanding

I found this on Wikipedia. Very interesting. The next one is also very interesting. Has references to people named Hobbes and Rousseau. Hmmm. A link from this page will take you to the first where you will also see John Locke referenced from the 17th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tabula_rasa

Also....did Jacob cause Nadia to be killed, or did...

2009-05-18T11:54:00.000-07:00

Also....did Jacob cause Nadia to be killed, or did he only save Sayid by calling him back?

So jacob/anti Jacob are black white and anit jacob...

2009-05-18T11:51:00.000-07:00

So jacob/anti Jacob are black white and anit jacob comments that "they always end up fighting",.....

so what about Rose and Bernard,....Black and White, yet living in harmony....would seem too much of a coincidence to me.

Joyce is right. Penelope was waiting for many year...

2009-05-18T05:15:00.000-07:00

Joyce is right. Penelope was waiting for many years waiting for Odyssey to return...

The fish was tilapia at the start, my parents know...

2009-05-18T02:18:00.000-07:00

The fish was tilapia at the start, my parents know it well from their year at the fish farm and called it the instant it showed up on screen :)

And as for the bomb, did it go off? My mom jumped for that, but I held back since that could have just been the anomaly, the light and sound was the same as the discharge from season 2 and all the time jumps we've seen.

Also some debate about if Jacob being there meant he was responsible for Nadia's death. While it seems Jacob is there to distract, to me it seemed like they were handing us the answer a bit too simply. With Lost, and answer handed to us like that is one I take with a lot of salt.

Narnia Theory - has anyone considered the parallel...

2009-05-17T18:11:00.000-07:00

Narnia Theory - has anyone considered the parallels to the point in The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe where Aslan is slain with a knife by the evil white witch? Could Jacob = Aslan? Because Aslan was a willing victim he was able to come back to life, thus jacob will not be killed.
In "The Last Battle" an ape disguises a donkey as Aslan, and uses him to convince others to do his will (says donkey/aslan wants xxx etc). The donkey is kept in a stable. Does stable = cabin??
Also time in Narnia moves differently to our time.
The whole Narnia thoery is not new see http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Narnia
Makes me want to go back and re-read the chronicles

A Theory on Claire... The guy in the Cabin was ne...

2009-05-17T15:57:00.000-07:00

A Theory on Claire...

The guy in the Cabin was never Jacob, it was his Enemy who was impersonating Jacob (he's the Smoke Monster and able to take on the human form of those no longer living in our time/universe). He was impersonating Jacob in order to trick the Others into doing his bidding.

The reason why Claire was in the Cabin and Christian (Jacob's Enemy) was able to hold Aaron is because Claire's baby is Jacob's Enemy's son. Claire told Kate not to bring him back because Aaron will grow up to be evil if he's on the Island with his father's influence, but he won't be evil off the Island.

Here are some examples of good versus evil from Sa...

2009-05-17T12:52:00.000-07:00

Here are some examples of good versus evil from Sanskrit records. They present good finally killing evil by use of a loophole!
The Rigveda (rig "praise, verse” and veda "knowledge") is an ancient Indian sacred collection of Vedic Sanskrit hymns. It is counted among the four canonical sacred texts of Hinduism known as the Vedas. Some of its verses are still recited as Hindu prayers, at religious functions and other occasions, putting these among the world's oldest religious texts in continued use. It is one of the oldest extant texts of any Indo-European language.
In the early Vedic religion, Vritra ,"the enveloper", was an Asura and also a serpent or dragon, the personification of drought and enemy of Indra. Vritra was also known in the Vedas as Ahi ("snake"), and he is said to have had three heads. The myth involving Vritra evolved over time as Indra's prominence at the head of the Pantheon faded and the Brahmins sought to glorify Vishnu.
In a version of the myth, Vritra was created by Tvashtri to avenge the killing of his son by Indra, known as Trisiras or Visvarupa. Vritra won the battle and swallowed Indra, but the other gods forced him to vomit Indra out. The battle continued and Indra was eventually forced to flee. Vishnu and the rishis brokered a truce, with Indra swearing that he would not attack Vritra with anything made of metal, wood or stone, nor anything that was dry or wet, or during the day or the night. Indra used the foam (which Vishnu had entered to ensure victory) from the waves of the ocean to kill him at twilight.
The story of Indra only being able to kill Vritra when certain conditions were met could have been the idea of the Ramayana , in which the gods could not kill Ravana because of a boon, and he was too powerful to be slain by any humans (the loophole in this case was that a god incarnated as a man, i.e. Rama, was able to kill him). In the case of the Narasimha avatara of Vishnu,the similarities are that Hiranyakashipu, being the Asura king using the same ploy as his ancestors, obtained a boon from Brahma that he could not be killed during the day or at night, nor by man or beast, neither indoors nor outdoors and by no weapon. In order to slay the Asura, Vishnu took the incarnation of a lion headed man, who was neither fully man nor fully a beast (Narasimha literally means man-lion). Narasimha used his nails, rather than weapons which would have proved ineffectual, to kill the Asura and placed him on the doorstep, which was neither indoors nor outdoors. He killed him at twilight, which was neither day nor night.
These are just some examples of loopholes in ancient texts. They may be used in the conflict between Jacob and his nemesis in LOST.

I believe the central theme of LOST is good versus...

2009-05-17T11:48:00.000-07:00

I believe the central theme of LOST is good versus evil. The two opponents are Jacob as Apep and Jacob’s Nemesis as Ra. Apep (Apepi, Aapep, Apophis) was a demon of the underworld, in the form of a giant water snake. He was the enemy of the sun god Ra, trying to stop him as he travelled on his boat through the underworld each night. He was so powerful that little could defeat him, and even then, he was back again the following evening to threaten Ra. He was a demon, the opposite of order, a demon of darkness and chaos.
Ra (pronounced as Rah, and sometimes as Re) is the ancient Egyptian sun god. For the Egyptians, the sun represented light, warmth, and growth. This made the sun deity very important to Egyptians, and it is no coincidence that the sun came to be the ruler of all. Ra was thought to travel in a sun boat (The Boat of the Millions) to protect its fires from the primordial waters of the underworld it passed through during the night. Ra traveled in the sun boat with various other deities including Set and Mehen who defended against the monsters of the underworld, and Ma'at who guided the boat's course. The monsters included Apep, an enormous serpent who tried to stop the sun boat's journey every night by consuming it. The Ra myth saw the sunrise as the rebirth of the sun by the goddess Nut and the sky, thus attributing the concept of rebirth and renewal to Ra and strengthening his role as a creator god.
Look at the excerpt describing how the Egyptians destroyed Apep.
The Book of Overthrowing Apep had the following descriptive chapters:
• The Chapter of Spitting Upon Apep
• The Chapter of Defiling Apep with the Left Foot
• The Chapter of Taking a Lance to Smite Apep
• The Chapter of Fettering Apep
• The Chapter of Taking a Knife to Smite Apep
• The Chapter of Putting Fire Upon Apep
According to these, Apep will first be speared, then sliced with red-hot knives so that every bone of his body has been separated, his head, legs and tail are cut off. His remains are then scorched, singed, and roasted, finally to be consumed by fire. The same fate awaits Apep's confederates and everything which formed parts of him, them, and all their offspring (their shadows, souls, doubles, and spirits).
We saw Jacob stabbed and thrown into the fire by Ben in the Season Five finale. We also have seen the remains of a left foot from an enormous statue in scenes of LOST. This also presents the dichotomy of Chaos (free will) versus Order (destiny). Please let me know what you think of this theory.

I'm not sure if anyone else has posted this yet, b...

2009-05-17T10:49:00.000-07:00

I'm not sure if anyone else has posted this yet, but I'm not sure "dead is dead." Walt told Locke that he had a dream where Locke was back on the island, wearing a suit, and people were trying to kill him. The first time we see Locke after the crash of 816, he's wearing a suit, and acting like Locke. At some point, he's wearing his old island clothes and acting odd, like NotLocke. Plus, the body Elana and her people carried was kind of curled up, not laid out straight. (rigor mortis and all that).

What if he did come back to life, and then was killed again, or just knocked out?

In response to playin_never_restin1994 said... "...

2009-05-17T10:28:00.000-07:00

In response to playin_never_restin1994 said...
"Two players. Two sides. One is light. One is Dark"
Locke, in Pilot(2)...
Mentions the ANTIQUITY of the game.
Both Locke and Walt have are special.
Locke is white, Walt is black.
The relevance of that quote from the FIRST EPISODE to where we are now is astounding. No one else think so?”
Fri May 15, 04:36:00 PM PDT

I agree that there are two sides in the “Great Game” being played on the Island by Jacob and his unnamed nemesis. I think the game resembles Jackals and Hounds, a game played in ancient Egypt as well as the ancient Middle East region. In the Paramount motion picture The Ten Commandments (1956), the Pharaoh Sethi plays this game with Nefretiri. This “racing game” has two players. The white side uses game pieces carved of ivory in the shape of hounds and the dark side uses game pieces carved of ivory painted black in the shape of jackals. Instead of dice as the “chance device”, the game uses four sticks, each with a curved side and a flat side to determine how many places the player’s game piece will move on the game board. The player who reaches the finish line first wins that round but the player who acquires all five of his opponent’s game pieces wins the game.
In the Fifth season, we saw a painting on the Temple wall of the smoke monster faced off with the Jackal god. This game also incorporates three of the six mysterious numbers:
4 8 15 16 23 42
4 being the number of sticks used as a chance device
8 being the hole where one must return to if he lands on the 10th hole
15 being the 15th hole on the game board where one is allowed to throw doubles.
I think the basic theme of LOST is good versus evil. I do not think that good always wears white and evil wears black. I would never believe any character saying that they are “the good guys”.

I'm almost positive that the character named Jacob...

2009-05-17T05:36:00.000-07:00

I'm almost positive that the character named Jacob is evil. Even if he is wearing white, he is not necessarily the "good" one. Also, just because we saw him stabbed and thrown into the fire doesn't mean he is dead. It doesn't even mean he didn't plan(manipulate) this situation exactly the way he wanted. Another thing, I'm not even sure Ben has ever told the truth about anything. He told Sun re Locke, "He was dead. You don't come back from that." He must have suspected something....

My electrical engineer friends, who are major Lost...

2009-05-16T23:34:00.000-07:00

My electrical engineer friends, who are major Lost fans like me, noted that the magnetism would have no effect on an airliner since it is constructed primarily of aluminum. Has anyone addressed this?

Did u notice that Jacob had to touch ever person t...

2009-05-16T23:17:00.000-07:00

Did u notice that Jacob had to touch ever person that he met, meaning the main characters. I wonder if this had any effect on them, why did he have to meet them, and why he meet them in different time zones. It would be nice if they revealed this during the next season...

Tim Maguire said... One other question. Do we kno...

2009-05-16T18:09:00.000-07:00

Tim Maguire said...
One other question. Do we know what the loophole is that allows Jacob to be killed?

I think the loophole has something to do with how shabbily Jacob treated Ben, that this (karmically?) allowed him to kill Jacob, where as another could not. Remember particularly that Ben was surprised that his daughter was killed - that this somehow was against the rules, that the rules had been changed in this case. I think that fake-Locke indicates this to Ben when he answers the question of "why me" (why Ben should kill Jacob). Flocke gives as an answer a list of unfortunate things that happened to Ben, which at first blush seems to be reasons why Ben would WANT to kill Jacob, but on closer inspection, I think, are actually a list of grievances that give Ben the ABILITY to kill Jacob. Because Jacob has wronged Ben, particularly in violation of certain rules, Ben is able to wrong (kill) Jacob - this, I think, is the loophole.

Tawaret is the only Egyptian god/goddess that is e...

2009-05-16T12:36:00.000-07:00

Tawaret is the only Egyptian god/goddess that is ever shown holding two Ankhs. The statue is holding two ankhs. Tawaret also has four toes. Tawaret is known as the mistress of the horizon. This may explain why the statue would be built looking out toward the ocean instead of in the center of a temple or shrine as many other Egyptian gods are.

From the episode summary on the official Lost portion of the ABC website. "And as the camera pulls back, we see what we've been waiting to see since we first glimpsed that four-toed foot over three years ago... the towering, majestic statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret." Michael Emerson also identified the statue as Tawaret in an interview.

The one problem I have with the statue is that in "Lafleur" it was clearly seen as if stepping into the Ocean. There was a gap between the legs. http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:5x08_Statue.png Seen again in The Incident Part I, the statue stood as if like "at attention" with its legs together.http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Fourtoedreconstructed.jpg I freaked at first thinking there are two statues, or the statue could move. I was wrong, it was a continuity error. SO BOGUS!

Jacob and his enemy, I believe, are two opposites,...

2009-05-16T12:22:00.000-07:00

Jacob and his enemy, I believe, are two opposites, like good and bad. The man wearing the black tunic does not seem to respect mankind. Jacob on the other hand, is trying to "prove him wrong" by brining what he believes are good people to let them share in the greatness of the isle. A loophole is being able to manipulate a human into killing on of these dieties or god like people.

How do they get to the island? They are touched by Jacob at a certain time in their life that would eventually lead them to one of the "Event Windows" that goes thru the islands radius.

Jacob's Cabin was not for Jacob. I believe it was containing his enemy and Ben would go to it because he believed it was where Jacob resided. However, as we know Jacob had been living in the statues foot. Everyone but Locke stepped over the ash, Locke picked some of it, thus allowing Jacob's enemy to either get inside Locke or escape.

Now, these two have been slightly manipulating all of our prominent characters. Sun is not in 1977 because she was the only one Locke didnt visit. When Jacob says "theyre coming," I think he is refering to Jack, Kate, Sayid, Hurley, and Sawyer. The individuals he touched off the island. Jacob found his loophole and we will see a christ like comeback.

Also, Jacob obviously knew that Ben was going to kill him. He did not prevent it because he had not found a loophole that directly manipulates a human into killing one of these god like figures. Ben is not special, he was not chosen by Jacob but taken to the temple by Richard. Ben is not a good human, as we can assume is the kind of humans Jacob brings to the island. He told Ben he still had a choice, but was not going to influence that choice. He is truth.

Jacob visited Sayid and Hurley post-rescue because they became "canidites" the type of person Llana referred to Lapidus as.

I have a good time with the show and was amazed by...

2009-05-16T08:25:00.000-07:00

I have a good time with the show and was amazed by the responses from these blogs..... I have a bit of a different approach to enjoy Lost. Instead of looking for questions and answers, just take it as it is. For example we all know the main theme of Lost is about dualistic, and that's why most of the references are from different cultures/religion about dualistic. I am sure this is done on purpose, and the a success as people are still crazy about it after 5 seasons.

I am actually more interested in the symbolic of the things in nature, like the "smoke monster" is about our fear, "the bomb" in the 70s in problem or attachment from the past. "The Island" is like our body..... and all the hatches are like different functions of our "mental" body. "The swan" is like our conscious body or CPU, to decide things. "The other" is like our subconscious body, that's why they were there from the very beginning..... I can go on and on.....

For your curiosity, my perception that the time traveling is just a "plot" for the writer to talk about those who has to accept their past, otherwise their problems will appear again and again in their present (as we see from Oceanic 4 when they try to MOVE ON by leaving the island, Sun & Aaron do count). Those who are stuck in the 70s know their problem, but hasn't comes to terms with them until the bomb exploded....... So I am expecting that most from the Oceanic will be in present time after this explosion.

I don't think there's any good/bad character, they are just serving a different destiny......

BTW, Richard Alpert was a Harvard psychologist and psychedelic pioneer before he became Ram Dass. Ram Dass means "the servant of God". Google Ram Dass.....