I've just finished watching the finale of this season of Lost, and for the first time in a long time, I've wanted to contribute something about episodes to the wiki, which I normally leave to my regular blogging colleagues Marik and Nick. The thing is.... I'm completely torn in two. The introduction of a new element which could alter the whole perception of Lost, and we all should have seen coming, has arrived, and I am well.... confused!
The introduction of flash-forwards, showing us life after the island is a completely new phenomenon and something absolutely nobody was expecting, if you hadn't read the mega-spoiler, which was sadly spread over the internet.
In one aspect, I think its a strange move, they are telling us information about who makes it off the island now, removing some levels of suspense. We know characters are going to be safe. This is such a sea-change I don't know what to make of it. On one hand, I think its brilliant, as we all know the fans would be clamouring, in 48 episodes time, to find out what happened to the rescued people, and we know that the show ends then and extending the show via other mediums, such as comic books wouldn't have the same lure, which would annoy many fans of the TV show... But, on the other hand Lost has evolved into a new beast, one that teases us about what happened in their past, and how they all met... and another teasing us about their connections in the future, and the effect the Island had on these people. Bringing a whole new skew on how we see things... Does anyone else feel excited, yet sucker punched?
I'm so flummoxed, confused and bewildered and I don't want to wait 8 months. At least with the Season 2 and 3 formats, the waits were much shorter between episodes overall. I just hope the fans who complained about those two formats know we've got a long wait ahead of us!
but isn't the whole point about flash forward that the outcome is not written in stone???
ReplyDeletealso the article in the la times... supposedly about a writer that theorizes about free will and all that... i think the 4th and 5th season will be about fighting the future and maybe even the past...
i still think that somehow the people that "talk" to the island(whatever the island is or stands for) can alter certain things on the outside.. how else is all the coincidences possible???
my 2 cents
The strange thing about the flash-forward is that it was directly out of fanfiction - a genre I never imagined them wanting to emulate.
ReplyDeleteNot sure yet whether it was brilliant, or lame. I think I'm leaning toward brilliant.
Certainly wildly unexpected (another reason to rejoice that I managed to avoid spoilers).
I'm not convinced that we are seeing the real future. There is a probability that as decisions are made or deviations are created through actions, the future will change.
ReplyDeleteRemember what Desmond has said about change. Things have to go exactly as the future says, else the future changes. The problem with this is that eventually a particular destiny (as in Desmond's example, death) will occur. It's already been demonstrated that the future can be changed, or at least for a brief time.
Perhaps the answer to the island is a way to reverse it permanently, rather than temporarily.
Hopefully this makes sense, but it's all just a theory so who knows? ;)
I couldn't sleep last night because I felt sucker-punched. It was the first time for me that I questioned the wisdom of the creators of the show.
ReplyDeleteThe focus has shifted from WILL they get off the island to HOW will they get off the island. It's going to take some readjusting on all of our parts to fully appreciate this.
I'm sure after a few episodes of season 4 I will see the wisdom in the flash-forwards, but currently I'm feeling, well, lost.
has anyone pulled a image of Ben's new map (that he used to chart a course to the radio tower), to be added to http://lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Island ?
ReplyDeleteI think the flash forward is a brilliant move. From a story-telling perspective, it opens all kinds of possibilities. The biggest is that it sets up an unbelievable storyline: Jack's return to the island.
ReplyDeleteIt also buys the writers a lot of time in answering all the Big Questions about the island by diverting our attention. They can't reveal the secrets now. It would pull the rug out from the series. But, at the same time, they needed new story elements. I think we'll see many flash forwards in the next three seasons.
TV is finally emulating movies' relatively recent penchant for non-linear story-telling. "Lost" needed this.
Even if we were shown the real future, the talk between Jack and Kate suggested that they are going to return to the island at some point to fix their "mistake".
ReplyDeleteSo maybe the 4th or 5th season is about them on the island for a second time???
I don't think I liked it. Maybe it will work out cool. But I thought it was suppose to be - if it ain't broke don't fix it.
ReplyDeleteI think I feel as "lost" as everyone lover of the show out there. I love the easter eggs that are coming to light, but has anyone mentioned how Jack told the new attending surgeon at the hospital to go upstairs and get his father. If this is the future, and we know that Jack's dad is dead, why would he make that reference.
ReplyDeleteI liked the flashforward for the shock factor but we we havnt been given enough information regarding its changability. Personally I think the future element was put in due to the success of heroes in doing the very same thing. But in that show the possiblity that the future can change is very clear. Its hard to see this as post 2010 with it being the non-linear end of the show.... I do believe further flashforwards will be used however if thats the period.
ReplyDeleteWhat if the show now shifts to them trying to find out why they shouldn't leave the island? The first half was them trying to get off; what if the last half is them trying to stay? After seeing the future, do we even want the Losties to be rescued now?
ReplyDeleteFLASH FORWARD/REWIND
ReplyDeleteloved the risk the writers took, but was most confused about the comment made by Jack to Dr. Hamil about Jack's father "upstairs".
Given the writers' interest in space-time warps I speculate whether time was rewound after the rescue to a point before Jack's fathers death?
this would mean bearded jack lives in "flash forward time" which is both before and after the crash with all the knowledge of both, which might explain his depression, alcoholism and addiction?
I felt like they answered the one single question that I didn't want an answer for.
ReplyDeleteI have always loved how flashbacks throw drastic new light onto character's behaviors, but if they get off the island, I don't really care what happens to them. The show is exciting only because they are on an island (and a spiffy one at that). If it's like "LOST... in New York!" I'd say join the crowd.
It makes complete sense for the writers to go into “flash-forward” mode for a couple of reasons:
ReplyDelete-One, it turns the shipwrecked-on-a-desert-island genre (in this case, plane-wrecked) on its head: in this tradition, the story ends with the rescue, but here we find that the rescue is just a new departure to a different climax
-Two, it overcomes the problem that the producers have with a cast that ages at least three years, while the timeline of the “island” part of the show is no more than three months. Recently, I watched the first season on DVD, and then watched the new episodes of the third series, which premiered in Feb. It doesn’t matter so much for actors over 30 (Fox, Halloway, Andrews, etc.), but the younger actors (De Ravelin, Lilly but also Monaghan) looked significantly more mature in the third series than they did in the first episodes, as they would, being only in their twenties.
Now, with the series presumably set in the present day (now going to “flash-backs” of the island and the rescue), this problem (which would only continue to become more acute) is overcome.
Now, we can see the sense of the writers killing off Boone, his sister and Ana Lucia, actors who are all in their twenties and thus would only appear to get older as the series went on…
Ps: didn’t Kate Austen look very different in the last scenes…? Any thoughts there…?
Speaking of screen captures, is there one available of Ben writing in his journal in his tent near the beginning of the episode? I'd love to know what it says.
ReplyDeleteHere's why I'm leaning towards brilliant:
ReplyDeleteEvery show like this turns on "will they get rescued?" It's been done to death, and it can easily get old and cliche. Also, it's hard to keep the back stories fresh, since we've learned so much about the various characters in 3 years.
The real story, the more interesting and intriguing story is "how do they go on living in the real world after an experience like this?" (Think Castaway, and Fearless.)
That's what the flash forwards allow them to do now, while also keeping alive the "how do they get rescued?" story and adding the "what compromises did they have to make to get rescued?" story. These are compromises (lying? leaving some people behind?) that obviously have rendered a mess of Jack's life, though Kate seems to be coping far better.
If they do it right - and I have every hope they will - the last three seasons could be even more creative and fascinating than the first three.
According to some sources, this is not the first flash forward that has occurred in Lost. This is the second time that a flash forward has occurred in Lost.
ReplyDeleteThe flash forward isn't necessarily a new thing, what if now that Charlie is dead Desmond is seeing beyond Claire getting in a helicopter and an aspect of series 4 will see him trying to persuade Jack to stay on the island based on this flash forward and the future it brings.
ReplyDeleteOk the one thing I am confused about regarding this flash forward thing is the part when Jack tells that doctor to go see how drunk his dad is or something like that. Isn't Jacks dad already dead when they get on the island. Can someone explain this?
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't get hung up on Jack's references to his dad during the flash forwards. This I suspect was partially there to confuse the issue of when this was taking place...but remember how drunk and on drugs Jack is at that time. He likely is blocking out the fact that his dad is dead. Watch the facial expression of the other doctor. It's a pity face. As for the pharmacist. The office number would be on the prescription paper...they would not know it's no longer in service until they call the number.
ReplyDelete1 - I think this is the first and perhaps only "flash-forward" we'll see. And I don't think anyone's getting off the Island before the final season. And I don't think it's spoiled any of the anticipation.
ReplyDelete2 - Did anyone see anything suggesting this was in fact the future? Remember Desmond's experience after blowing up the hatch? I agree it's post-Island, but I'm not convinced it's the future. My guess - Sawyer's in the coffin, the "he" is Kate's cop boyfirend, and Jack is going nuts because his life is unravelling again. Oh yeah, and his dad's alive.
1) the idea of getting off the island has become something to avoid. Jack is no longer a hero/leader in the "real" world. For us the viewers this is not the ending we want for this character.
ReplyDelete2) Jack does reference his father as being alive. No matter how drugged up and drunk you are you know your dad is dead. This has to go to the theory that there are multiple realities in the show. ie. the oceanic passengers are all dead.
Maybe the whole glimpsing into A possible future (a la flash-forward) and the possibilities to change the future are akin to the Valenzetti Equation and DHARMA.
ReplyDeleteThe Valenzetti Equation was devised to predict the extinction of the human species by it's own hand. The equation tells us the outcome (number of months/years until we wipe ourselves out) while the DHARMA Initiative was setup to change the numbers the equation produces and thus, change the outcome - longer, better life for us humans instead of death by our own hand.
If we are given glimpses into A possible future, perhaps that future can be changed through different decision making. But this would also mean that flash-forwards can be easily rendered irrelevant or completely inaccurate if ANY of the decisions taken aren't exactly the ones which lead to that particular future (not that we'd know, of course).
Past use of time travel/scewing in TV programmes has lead to some highly improbable story-telling and some utterly horrible paradoxes, etc. I sincerely hope that the writers have their plans set out well in advance or this could go all Star Trek, Dallas et al, in a hurry.
i'm pretty upset for Charlie's dead... actually i'm upset by the way they've done it
ReplyDeleteconsidering the rate at which the water was coming in, i felt like there was enough time for them to grab the scubba equipment... or perhaps closing the door from outside ?
i don't know...
Um... I have to go with smokeonit on this one. As I've pointed out on the forums... when you look now at the whole episode, you'll see how it builds up to the climax of John Locke and Jack confronting at the end - "You're not gonna stop me from leaving this island anymore", "You're not supposed to do this"... and then, just minutes later we see that Jack DID do it and actually regrets it. He wants to go back and he even quotes Locke by saying to Kate that they weren't supposed to leave. And then it kinda makes sense that the person Jack read was dead is Locke - hence the "forgive me" when he wanted to jump off the bridge.
ReplyDeleteSo, what we saw is the outcome of the decision to leave with Naomi's people, and next season is probably be about the question if we can avoid that future. ANYBODY who ever watched a movie which involves the future or read a book with that topic knows that it always comes down to the question if we can change it.
And speaking of if this is the "real" future or not is ridiculous, because... if we take that the on-Island story is present, then anything real is only the present and the past. The Future can NEVER be real, from a logical, physical and mathematical point of view... why? Well, how can something be real if it hasn't happened yet? It's the same as calling a woman's child real before she even got pregnant.
And I will adress one other thing here... one that we all missed. Charlie's little chat with Penny is the FIRST!!!!!! contact of any of our Losties with the outside world. Ha?
My theory about why Jack referred to his father being alive again:
ReplyDeleteIt seems like the island has a way of bringing important people in the characters' lives back into some sort of existence: Mr. Eko's brother to Mr. Eko, Walt to John Locke, Locke's father to Locke AND Sawyer. How much were these people real or imagined? That's hard to say, since Eko's brother seemed to be a phantasm while Locke's father was real. So I think that 'magic box' Ben referred to, that is it's function; it conjures up significant people in your life.
Perhaps, then, the island/magic box conjured up Jack's father as punishment for him leaving the island? Perhaps Sawyer is the one who's dead, and the 'he' Kate mentions when she talks to Jack is her father, or some other man she betrayed? Their punishment for leaving the island is having these people who were dead come back into their lives, haunting them. They had resolved their demons while ON the island, so the island sent the demons back once they were OFF.
Or maybe this is all just a dream in the mind of Walt's dog. At the end of season 5, the dog wakes up in Sydney and goes off to play with Walt. Lost meets Newhart. Could happen!
Um... I hardly could believe that the island can conjure a manifestation thousands of miles away...
ReplyDeleteWell, Jacob did ostensibly heal Juliet's sister thousands of miles away.
ReplyDeletedid anyone else think that kate looked almost "fake" in the flash forward, almost doll-like??
ReplyDeleteWhy was Desmond being shot at by Mikhail from a beach, when I think when Charlie first dived down to 'The Looking Glass' they were in the middle of the ocean?
ReplyDeleteOne advantage the flash forward format will bring is that we are going to be able to see much more of Walt and the ageing factor means little!
ReplyDelete